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Cyanide Looking to join a league or tournament

Discussion in 'General Blood Bowl News and Discussion' started by Cianybeasty, Jul 15, 2011.

  1. Etheric

    Etheric Well-Known Member

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    Yeah had a quick look at the stats for vustnuv's lizards vs Gallows Elves and there was nothing spectacularly bad there so could be a good example.

    I am slightly tempted to submit a game I had as nuffle vs the noob (I got bad dice, my opponent was not very good). Not sure how instructive that would be though. Ended 1-1 after I failed a 3+ roll for the win.
     
  2. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    I have to disagree here, I was facing a defensive line spread perfectly to cover the width of the pitch in tacklezones and every single member of that line was strength 4 or above. To open up any of those spots required me to place 3 plays just to make the block and a forth to cover the next closest saurus to prevent an assist on the elf making the blitz. Conversely the dodge move allowed me to open a hole will committing less than 4 players to only making a hole - allowing me to better set up receivers.

    In the second half I will admit it was a mistake to make the dodge into two tackle zones, but I made a mistake there because I couldn't see the skink behind the saurus, which wasn't the set up in the first half. Without committing nearly half my team to even make a single hole there wasn't any way through that wasn't 3 dodges minimum.

    The proposal to open up the middle would have meant committing 3 elves to make a block on a saurus and 3 more to block the kroxigor stood in centre LOS. I'm not going to use 6 of my team to make 2 blocks that still leave me having to dodge to get into back field.

    I'm not and haven't claimed this game saw bad dice except at critical moments for me, if you want to see a nuffling I'm sure with some time to check my history I'll be able to find some truly spectacular ones. This wasn't a nuffling on the dice, overall I was pleased with the dice except for the fumbled go for it and the relatively lucky Ag1 Saurus dodge that took down my ball carrier in the second half.

    Committing 3 elves to every block on 1 saurus, while statistically more successful would have left great holes in my defence and left me clumped up and easily marked for a battering. It might have a better chance, but if it leaves 2 elves committed to the block to free up one, when I had to use one free elf to make the block, I gain no more players for any useful purpose.
     
  3. Raveen

    Raveen Member

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    I'd be happy to upload my first TFF League game. My necros vs norse. I made some dumb mistakes but managed to get a 2-0 win and in all honesty I'd be interested to learn from you guys (also saves me having to find time to watch it :) ).
     
  4. Etheric

    Etheric Well-Known Member

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    Ok made a thread for that in the tactics forum (I guess that is the right place ?)

    Not watched the replay yet, will go do it now.
     
  5. Mico Selva

    Mico Selva Active Member

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    @Gallows Bait
    I analyzed the raplay to the extent of my limited coaching abilties. Sorry that it does not help You at all, but my Blood Bowl knowledge does not allow for more than that. Maybe someone else can provide You with more information.

    I only have one comment:

    I think the setup was identical in both halves. Can't check right now, though.
     
  6. bobman

    bobman Member

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    Don't give up GB. I'm with you in the Nuffled camp so I need someone to challenge for most nuffled in CCV!

    I also reckon that bad luck is not only reflected in percentages, but also includes the timing. On more than a few occasions I have cursed when my opponent only fails minor rolls where all my fails are hand offs to enable the score.

    I also think that a win % of 46 is pretty awesome, mine struggles to even see where 40 is!
     
  7. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    I value the feedback, regardless of experience and I certainly don't think you should be shy giving it given your impressive record so far. I just wanted to explain why I felt forced into the route I did - 7 strength 4+ players lined up across the width of the pitch is a pretty rough one for Elves to break through unless you risk dodging through.

    I'll have a look when I write up the match report.. I could have been wrong, but I think it was different as I think I got the assist on the block in the first half kick off.
     
  8. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen the replay, but just thought it was worth commenting on this. Was this on turn 1, or another early turn during your drive? If so, then it was probably worth waiting in your half of the field for a turn or two, so that your opponent committed his saurus wall in some way before trying to get receivers into his half. Without any Guard elves, or +Str ones there is little point in trying to force an early break-through in a situation like that if you have plenty of turns left on the clock.

    If he just sits there and does not move, then he is taking time off his own drive and you can then commit hard when there are fewer turns left, which lessens the likelihood of a retaliatory score. Also don't be afraid to commit lots of elves to take down the lizardman LOS. This can be valuable, as it means you can then set up a stronger platform for breaking through in the following turns.
     
  9. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    The first time it was after his first TD so I was really pushing to equalise. In the second half I was then 0-2 down and really needed to push hard to stand a chance of getting a draw or a win.

    What I didn't realise in the second half was the skink position had been one square off in the first half set up, and didn't see the difference in the second so the dodge was tougher and failed (and wouldn't have given me the assist in any case).

    Played a CTA match against Etheric's lizards and definitely saw the value in waiting a turn or two for an opening as his rush towards the ball allowed a receiver up field for the throw.
     
  10. Narly Bird

    Narly Bird Well-Known Member

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    I saw in this thread that there is some talk of the win/loss ratio for each coach. How do you find such information? Is it something in Cyanide or bbmanager? For example GB talked about his win/loss ratio being 47% or something like that. How can i see what mine is? And can you view other coaches?

    I played my first mm match in ages last night against a Nurgle team that wasn't doing the ultra tv management thing. Quite a surprise. I still got my butt kicked though due to some lazy play and pretty bad dice. Interestingly, foul appearance worked 40% of the time! Man i hate that skill!
     
  11. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    The win-loss ratio is one of the statistics held in the stats tab in Cyanide. Its not a brilliant measure but its as close as we get. It largely ignores draws and only seems to count ranked matches. I'm not sure how it counts crashed games, but they appear to register.

    Oddly draws aren't quite worth nothing, so if I'm on 46.1% and next game I get a draw, it goes up slightly to something like 46.2% rather than leaving it unchanged, but I can't figure out the value it attributes. If I'd known it wasn't straight forward I'd have figured it out back when I had 10-20 games played instead of 350!

    So for me right now it shows 118-78-140 which I calculate (ignoring draws) as 45.74% yet it shows me 46.73%

    Ignoring private league matches I'm at 117-77-133 which calculates to 46.80% so it can't be that either. Similarly MM only games recorded at 109-70-131 doesn't match either.

    Taking out 8 crash losses would put me at 118-78-132 and doesn't work either...:confused:

    In any case, its a reasonably close measure. :D

    Some samples from coaches in CCV just as a way of showing the general calibre of coach on BBT and in CCV:

    Creamster 60.7%
    jrpeart 58.8%
    Etheric 60.8%
    maxcarrion 58.0%
    Netsmurf 63.0%
    Rusty 54.9%
    Danton 67.5%
    John McGuirk 68.6%

    And yourself Narly : 65.08%
     
  12. bobman

    bobman Member

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    When you load up BB you're on the 'overview' tab where you can see all your teams. There is also a 'statistics' tab. That will give you all kinds of stuff including win ratio.

    Wow I'm rubbish. Mine is only 38!
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2011
  13. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    This is why we play against these folks though, to learn and improve.

    Comfortingly even really good coaches lose about 1/3 of the time. :cool:
     
  14. Rusty

    Rusty Active Member

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    Judging from your stats alone GB it appears to count draws as half a win. So add your number of wins to half your number of draws and then divide by the total number of games and you get 0.4673. Or if you prefer:

    Ratio = ( W + 0.5D ) / (W + D + L)

    Oh and thanks for including me as the worst percentage in that list. :D
     
  15. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Hmm, that's an interesting calculation. Never twigged that. :eek:

    Oh, and you've nothing to be ashamed of Rusty, any player over 50% is doing great in my book. I've spent 9 months trying to improve to 50% and only gone from 42% to 46%!

    Of course Pro Elves, Humans and High Elves in an MM environment may not have been the wisest choices for that, looking back. :(
     
  16. Rusty

    Rusty Active Member

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    Well, I think my win ratio is flattered by such a large proportion of my games being friendlies in CTA. There are lies, damn lies, and...
     
  17. Mico Selva

    Mico Selva Active Member

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    Indeed, it does work this way.

    It treats them as a win (if the other player crashed) or a loss (if You crashed), unless the crash happens before the match even starts. Happened to me, the other guy got disconnected during loading (twice, with the same opponent) and I did not get a win, but when my game crashed 2 second after loading, I got a loss.

    @bobman
    Wow, there's someone here with worse win/loss ratio than my 40% :D Don't worry, I've encountered coaches with 20% ratio too (counted from over 100 games), so we're not that bad. :p

    For the record, Flix' win ratio is around 80%, if I recall correctly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2011
  18. Narly Bird

    Narly Bird Well-Known Member

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    LOL! I would be interested to see the number of drawn matches that Rusty has. Up until recently it seemed like almost every single match i played against him we would get a draw!

    Thanks GB and Bobman for the info. Will check it out when i get home tonight. I assume it includes not just mm but also league matches also? Its good to see a lot of the CC guys are > 50%. But i wouldn't place much faith in these stats to determine a coaches ability. Someone with a low win % might just play a lot of matches as Halflings or tier 3 teams, whilst a coach with a high win % might just play as Orcs/tier 1 teams.

    I almost never play mm anymore (basically just league and CTA matches), so i wonder if that has some effect on my performance too? My feeling is that I tend to have a higher win ratio in leagues than in mm. So I imagine that if i played more mm my win ratio would be lower.

    Its interesting to see how far this thread has been derailed! I wonder what the next "off-topic" will be? :D
     
  19. bintz

    bintz Active Member

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    I was going to say the same Narly just said: it greatly depends on what teams you play most. Cyanide should display those stats for each race you play, not like a summed up stat which doesn't mean much, especially if you like playing stunties or low tier teams.

    Also the MM environment clearly favour some teams, which has a big influence on the win ratio.

    Anyways, you shouldn't worry much about that ;)
     
  20. Rusty

    Rusty Active Member

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    Excluding disconnects and non-ranked games (which I can't be arsed to look up), I've drawn 15/36 on Cyanide. Not quite half, but I'm working on it!