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Rules Making a team for Slaanesh

Discussion in 'General Blood Bowl News and Discussion' started by Stryke, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    Inspired by the Horrors of Tzeentch thread I fancied having a crack at making a team for the last chaos God (well unless someone wants to try Malal :p)

    [​IMG]

    Right so concept for this team is winning the game by lying down on the pitch as befitting the team devoted to the Lord of Pleasure with a side order of agility to make the team play very differently from the other Chaos gods.

    Courtesans are pretty straight forward so not much to say here.

    Daemonettes are a huge issue in translating as they clearly have claws but that much claw on a team would be ridiculous. Compromise I've come up with is Stab plus it fits the Slanneshi theme for them to be sticking their claws in and the opposing player not minding much at all. Wrestle for the team theme and Foul Appearance is a no brainer as they're all about persuading the opponent not to hit them though in a very different way from Nurgle. Undercosted them by 10k, but I think that's reasonable with the rest of the team.

    Heralds use their claws in a more straight forward manner along with Diving Tackle to continue the theme. I did consider Piling on but yeah that'd be silly. I can see some people thinking Hypnotic Gaze should go in here somewhere, but personally you want that you play Vampires and deal with all the shortcomings they have to make up having it.

    Fiends have massive claws so that was a definite, Prehensile tail as they have a massive one and Side Step while I admit seems weird but going by Lexicanum "Fiends show an unnatural ability and speed ... and running in a confusing side-to-side movement which often confounds their enemies" plus it's a fun weird pick for a Big Guy so I quite like it.

    So what do you guys reckon?
     
  2. Basilisk9466

    Basilisk9466 Member

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    I'd disagree about hypnotic gaze - putting it on a low strength, high agility team is radically different to vampires. Not convinced about wrestle as a skill theme.

    They're also way too slow. Slaaneshi demons universally have Fleet in 40k, and they're one of the few forces with M10 cavalry in WFB. I'd ditch the Stab on daemonettes and shunt them up to MV7 at the very least, probably 8.

    Some interesting ideas, though. I like the Foul Appearance use.
     
  3. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    From having played Vamps pretty extensively the reason why the team is designed to make you suffer is how stupidly good Hypno Gaze is with the 6448 statline being a distant second place. It basically breaks the most important concept in the game in removing tackle zones along with effectively allowing multiple blitzes a turn.

    None of the current teams have Wrestle as the theme so seemed like an opening for a spot in the current roster to me.

    I originally did have the Daemonettes as Ma7, but dropped them down to Ma6 partially in an attempt to make them more balanced and cheaper to include on the team. Could drop Wrestle instead to get them to Ma7 possibly. Also would dropping the Herald Av down to 7 then bumping the Ma to 8 possibly be an idea?
     
  4. Limdood

    Limdood Well-Known Member

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    those demonettes are WAY WAY WAY overpowered....they have the exact same stat line, cost, and access as assassins, and have 2 extra skills, AND you can have 4 of them on the pitch (4 stab is insane of a coach knows how to use it).

    4 stab players on their own is insane, coupled with almost exclusive wrestle access to start out. Basically, you have a no risk team....they can block better than norse, since all but ONE player has wrestle out of the box, they can dodge nearly as well as elves, they have less risk than ANY other team, able to make as many as 4 blocks in a turn before they risk even a 1/36 chance turnover (just sit your 4 stab players on top of prone people).

    Basically, as written, they're a team that can run circles around non elf teams, and out-injure most any team. They're also insanely TV efficient, having 4 positionals that literally NEVER need to skill up to compete at top effectiveness (and if they do skill up, they have 2 normal rolls and a doubles roll that will see them continue to get more effective). 2 claw means that even AV9 teams need to fear them (and by the way, the heralds have 1 less MA than a necro werewolf and 1 more agility, and start with 1 extra skill...and a protection skill at that)

    Even the "big guy" (which the team would be able to trounce most other teams even without) is very very powerful....at rookie level, he is as good as any other road-block big guy at level 2 or more. SS and prehensile tail makes him as good as a SF Krox, and as good as a level 3 minotaur (with SS+tail being arguably comparable to SF+tentacles). Simply sit him in the middle and never use him. On top of that, if the action shifts away from him, he can just move over next to it again on a 2+.

    In short i think your team as written is unbelivably overpowered.
    -The courtesans are overpowered with agility access (their counterparts on norse and amazon teams have general only)
    -The Daemonettes are REALLY too cheap, have too many skills, and too many are available
    -The Heralds are too cheap for the 3 skills they start with, and are generally better than the blitzers available to other teams (other than Woodies, and even then, they kill better)
    - the big guy is custom made for his role at rookie level and has more starting good skills than any other comparable big guy, (2 each on minos, nurgle, and krox, 3 on trees, but they have 3 neg traits to make up for it)

    the team as a whole picks and chooses the very very best of almost every race WITHOUT the drawbacks
    - a superb big guy roadblock like Nurgle or Lizardman without the need to level him
    - superb starting defensive skills (and ballcarrier removing skills) without the teamwide abysmal armor that norse and zons have (Ulfs don't get block)
    - More stab than dark elves AND with 2 built in defensive skills that don't even require levelling
    - lineman 50k linemen with a skill like norse and zons, but with multiple access (GA) like dwarves, chaos, and elves
    - starting claw on the blitzers without the vulnerability of wolves, plus easier dodging and a punishment for running away.
    - FIVE players on the team that are effective...even very GOOD at high TV at rookie level...no other team gets that
     
  5. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    @Limdood - the demonettes have one more skill than assassins who also have shadowing. Otherwise I agree that this roster is generally op.
     
  6. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    Alright ignoring what's on the models for the sake of balance how about Daemonette gain a Movement, lose Stab, same cost. Courtesan's lose Agi access on regular leveling. Heralds swap Claw for Stab and lose an Armour. Fiend swaps Really Stupid for Wild Animal and possible loses a Movement?
     
  7. Limdood

    Limdood Well-Known Member

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    that sounds pretty good actually Stryke. The heralds still come out pretty powerful (especially being placed over prone players....since now the opponent has to stay prone, blitz from prone, dodge away from a diving tackle, or face the stab), but have a huge cost to make up for it.

    The only change i'd have to your proposed changes would be to keep really stupid, keep the stats of the big guy as well, but just remove sidestep, or pump his cost by at least 20k (without SS he can still grab SF, which admittedly, probably feels a little less contiguous with the fluff, but otherwise he's a hell of a good big guy, with the obligatory roadblock skills and stats)
     
  8. Basilisk9466

    Basilisk9466 Member

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    I personally think that Really Stupid is more crippling than Wild Animal. Needing to be chaperoned around the place is a lot more frustrating than getting grouchy if they can't hit something.

    Honestly I'm not convinced about agility 4, the more I think about it. Slaanesh feels like a team that isn't about fancy ball tricks - it's about disabling the enemy team in a more subtle fashion than the normal bashy routines.
     
  9. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    Given the four Chaos gods though I do think Slannesh have the best case to be team agile.

    Right attempt at a revised version.

    [​IMG]

    For the Fiend I've bumped the cost up a bit and nerfed his movement along with making him Wild Animal so he's not so similar to the Beast. I think it should be noted is the only other Big Guy as flimsy out there is the Rat Ogre who is fairly comparable with a trade between +2Ma, Frenzy, MB and potential access to mutations with Claw and Side Step. Sure he's a great road block as is but he's not going to survive the duty anywhere near say a Beast or Krox would.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  10. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    That looks a bit better, but I think that having this much Ag 4 and Wrestle on virtually the entire team is still very op. Think about it, no team in BB has both lots of Ag 4 and a spammed blocking skill on the entire roster.

    I would take Wrestle off the Courtesans for starters and maybe give them Fend instead, as it fits with your theme, but is less strong than Wrestle is out of the gate.
     
  11. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    Hmm how about instead of dropping the Wrestle off the Courtesans how about dropping it off the Daemonettes might make it more reasonable as then you're losing a good chunk of the blocking skills off the Agi 4 pieces with the exception of the Heralds? Not sure what to replace it with, I can see cases for Side Step or Disturbing Presence both could fit the theme or even maybe Diving Catch.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  12. Limdood

    Limdood Well-Known Member

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    @ Danton:

    also, if you're giving stab to the heralds, they don't need wrestle (and could then be cheaper).

    If you do that, then you're back to a normal powered team, which is good!....it would play similar to a mix between dark elves and skaven.....you'd have 4 blitzer roles (the daemonettes with their high MV and wrestle), 2 specialist positionals (the stabbers), 1 big guy, and linemen with a built in defensive skill

    as far as THIS big guy goes, i'd rather really stupid over wild animal by a MILE. The way he's built, he shouldn't be hitting anyone at all. The way the team is built, the big guy will almost NEVER be blitzing. He also doesn't ever need to block...after all, he certainly doesn't need to level...he's a perfect roadblock right out of the gates. The only thing that big guy will need to do is to move every now and again, if the action shifts away from him, and RS is much better at moving around than Wild animal. He might also need to occasionally need to make a block to free himself up, but you should have 2 assists for that (for a 3d block) anyways, making the "chaperoning" not an issue.

    you'd have:
    courtesans - 50k, 6337 Fend, and General access
    Daemonettes - 7347 wrestle, FA (claws could work here too, but FA is definitely more in keeping with the defensive nature of the team) with GA access
    Heralds could be 100k - 7347 with stab and DT (now they no longer resemble blitzers, and look like the specialist positional role that they are)
    and the big guy as written or with Really stupid (which functionally would be stronger, at least in my opinion)

    @ Stryke
    As stated above, to really fit a blood bowl team, you're gonna want a selection of the following
    Linemen
    Blitzers
    catchers
    throwers
    specialist positionals (ie. assassins, witch elves, norse runners, troll slayers)
    a Big Guy

    most teams that have 2 blitzers have catchers and throwers or a wide selection of positionals. It would be easier to make the Daemonettes function as blitzers (with block as a starting skill instead of the normal block), and make the heralds, who you gave stab to, into the specialist positionals.

    As a side note, if you do remove wrestle from the courtesans and give them fend, you could probably get away with giving them back agility access (maybe)
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  13. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    I'll admit I'm not keen on on Fend on the Courtesans as while they're not an official team it's beginning to step to much on ground trod by that Bretonnian team plus I don't think it fits the theme to well. Options I can see here is drop the wrestle and make them basically Thralls, add a point of Ma and make them basically linerats, give them Side Step which is almost certainly too strong in that amounts, give them Diving Catch which is while certainly different not very useful on Ma6, hmm I suppose Grab could fit with the idea of them moving the opponent where they want them, but I think that could lead to too easy surfs spammed that much. They could all pick up Foul Appearance which would certainly fit the theme that Slaanesh wins by you not being able to fight back though that could well also be imba with so much of it available. So my preference is them keeping Wrestle with an outside preference for Foul Appearance.

    I wasn't thinking of the Daemonettes team roll as Blitzers I'll admit more runners so perhaps we change them to 7347 Foul Appearance, Side Step which would make them the solid movers of the ball on the team.

    The Herald, how about instead of just leaving them as Stab, DT they pick up Foul Appearance instead off Wrestle as they're supposed to be champion Daemonettes.

    I was thinking Wild Animal as a nerf to his decent road block nature as then if he needs to be repositioned you're going to have to use the turns blitz. If you don't think it's needed he could stay as Really Stupid though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  14. hungrygnome

    hungrygnome Member

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    Wild animal actually helps his road block nature, in the fact that, even if he fails his roll.. he retains his tackle zones.. thus keeping his abilities in effect.

    And one other thing, yes he is the God of pleasure.. but that does not mean just sexual, like your original post implies.

    "Slaanesh is the God of hedonism and excess. But this is true in all things, not just carnal pleasures. Those who desire to indulge in the finest culinary delights, the most beautiful artworks, even the most sensual clothing, could all be amongst Slaanesh’s disciples. Just as importantly, Slaanesh is also the God of perfection. The singer striving for the most beautiful song or the warrior who seeks the perfect fighting techniques, both could be devotees of Slaanesh."
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
  15. Bakunin

    Bakunin New Member

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    This is how I would do it:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. mamutas

    mamutas Super Moderator Moderator

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    I was expected to see Stub on everyone. Claw certainly makes them much more powerful.
     
  17. SunBro

    SunBro New Member

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    This is a concept team I recently made on FUMBBL. Feel free to play around with it. The roster is called, "SunBro Slaanesh Concept" if you are interested. Slaanesh Concept.png
     
  18. Darkson

    Darkson Member

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    Wondered why some of the rosters had claw on the fiends.
    Just looked at the current(?) fiend model and have my answer - I much prefer the classic ones with hands/tentacles myself. :(
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Bakunin

    Bakunin New Member

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    Thats not a bad idea, to remove no hands and claw and give them MB... I like he 80's models as well.
     
  20. Darkson

    Darkson Member

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    On a side note, the Bloodthrister on the Quorn team should be removed and replaced by a Fleshhound or Juggernaut.