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Skaven My First Skaven Team [Nuffle Help Me!]

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Breidr, Oct 12, 2015.

  1. Breidr

    Breidr Member

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    This is the first season for my league in Blood Bowl 2 and I'm excited to get to play in it. I normally play a more resilient team, but I wanted to try something new and balance the races, so I have myself a new Skaven team.

    I have opted for 2 Gunners and a Rat Ogre at the start, giving me 3 rerolls to play with. First purchase is going to be the Apothecary.

    With this being my second time coaching AV 7 [The first being a Pro Elf team] I'm scared I will run out of steam towards the end like last time. All I have figured out right now is my Gunners. I was planning on having 2 with Block and Two with Wrestle, similar to Undead ghouls, but I have a thrower, so they don't need sure hands, well, and they have AG 4. The Storm Vermin and ROgre seem to want guard, and the lineman get block/wrestle? Throw in a couple of spares and pray to Nuffle.

    It's not much of a plan, but it's my plan. I'll have to practice my screens since basing players is scary. Am I on the right track, any nuggets of wisdom out there for me?
     
  2. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    I wouldn't want to start with only 2 gutter runners as they are the players who win you games and the main reason I play skaven.
    Also most people go MB PO with Claw on doubles on the vermin. Guard comes later.
    The thinking behind that is with guard they help the linerats hit and get SPP while with MB they are the ones getting the SPP and they have a better chance to remove players from the pitch.
     
  3. Tjorne

    Tjorne Member

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    What tys says. Also, the ROgre is not a great Big Guy. Don't expect too much of him.

    You will learn to love the Gutter runners.

    Lastly, learn to foul with the linemen. They are cheap and fast.
     
  4. LloydsGamble

    LloydsGamble Active Member

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    That's interesting to me. I always thought of Skaven as a team who are pure ball-hawks. A high risk/reward team focused on taking any opportunity they can to pop a ball loose and score. And for that surely a Guard vermin is more useful. I understand that a Grunner with Guard is even better though, but there's no guarantee of getting that.

    I'm not an experienced Skaven player so may be completely wrong
     
  5. Tjorne

    Tjorne Member

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    I'm not too experienced with Skaven, but as far as I understand them they are more diverse:

    Skaven also focus on removing key players (not many players, necessarily), by ClaPOMB + fouling. Of course, going for the ballcarrier is priority #1, but until then top players get off the pitch - at least according to the plan.
     
  6. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    Yeah Tjorne is absolutely right.

    If you play skaven as pure ball hawks then what you have are basically underpowered wood elves; since the latter have universal agility 4 and war dancers they are much more suited to that style. As Tjorne says skaven have the advantage over elves of being able to build killers and having cheap linerats to foul with. Combine this with the fact that they are only agi 3 so can't column defend reliably and it becomes clear that selective player removal is a key skaven strategy on defense.

    Plan A is to grab the ball before they can cage it but that fails at least 8/10 probably more. Plan B is to remove just a couple of players and shepherd a couple more away from the cage so that it weakens and you can give your gutters a good shot. Desperate column defense is plan C.

    Early on a rat ogre really helps with that but as you go up in TV they are too vulnerable against bash teams (though they remain good against elves). What you really want is strong stormvermin hitters, preferably with claw. So you build both as killers so that both can make good use of the double if they get it.

    I would go mb, po on one and mb, tackle on the other. After that if you haven't got a doubles yet you might consider getting guard on the tackle guy while the po gets another kill skill - juggs helps with one turning.

    Guard is great but not vital for skaven - my rats that just won BC had no guard all season.
     
  7. Breidr

    Breidr Member

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    In terms of extra muscle, I thought the Rogre would be useful, I may keep him on for now. I am in a somewhat bashy division and he might help me a bit. I may hang onto him until he gets hurt eventually and just not replace him. He's not really going to hog SPP, so I don't see it as an issue.

    It's weird that he is not considered a "good" big guy, I thought he fit the team rather well. Give him guard and make him a roadblock.
     
  8. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    I haven't played Skaven much, but I think the reason he isn't considered a good big guy, is because he is AV8, and has wild animal. Meaning when you need to reposition him as a roadblock, you need to use your blitz to have a reasonable chance of him moving (And still a fair chance of just wasting your blitz and him still not moving)

    Plus he is quite expensive for what he brings to the team.
     
  9. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    The Rat Ogre has its uses but it is the same cost as a wizard.
    If I had to choose between the 2 then I would take the wiz every time.
    It is better in a rookie / newish team than a developed one.
    Once your vermin get skilled up they want to be blitzing which reduces the options for the Rat Ogre.
     
  10. LloydsGamble

    LloydsGamble Active Member

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    I don't like the Frenzy big guys personally. I think it's a playstyle thing though, I know they work for some people.

    I don't like the idea of using my blitz non-optimally just to hopefully bring my big guy back into a semi-relevant position. And if I actually want to make a key blitz (on the ball carrier for example) then I don't use him anyway because of the fairly high chance of it failing.

    I admit I'm not very good at keeping him involved in the ruck though so he gets a block each turn without wasting the blitz but with Frenzy it's quite easy for him to be drawn out of position easily and either knocked down or isolated.
     
  11. Jav

    Jav Active Member

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    AV8 just isn't that much for a roadblock. You'll find him injured or in the KO box a lot. He's also not as valuable as a wizard for rats, and an induced one is just as good as a rookie RO!

    You will want all 4 gutters as soon as possible. They are the heart of your team. You're right that you'll want two wrestle and two block under normal circumstances.

    I wouldn't bother with block on the linerats. First one to level gets kick, then wrestle for the rest. Doubles will be pretty dependent on the rest of your team if and when you roll them.

    I wouldn't replace any injured lineman until you get all four gutters and enough bank to replace a gutter or stormvermin when you lose them. You can make do with journeyman or induced lineman when you need to.
     
  12. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    I get kick then dp on my linerats. Wrestle is a luxury pick after those skills. Kick can also go on a thrower.
     
  13. sbr32

    sbr32 Well-Known Member

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    Kick and dp on every line rat?
     
  14. Jav

    Jav Active Member

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    In my opinion you need the linerats creating a screen to keep your positionals from getting blitzed. Skaven want to be spread out or at the very least bunched up away from the majority of your opponents team. I just don't find good fouling opportunities with them.
     
  15. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    I used to feel that way but then I changed my mind. Basically I virtually gave up on screening. You can do it turn 6-8 if you have a realistic chance of stopping the td but before then there's very little need instead you want to peel people away from the cage... And kicking their heads in. But Do Not let yourself get boxed in. One gang fouls is OK, two in a row is invitation for bash teams to surround and destroy you.
     
  16. Breidr

    Breidr Member

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    My first match is up against some Orcs. *gulp*

    They have opted for a troll and 2 rerolls, so I have the more reliable team, I think, but the muscle is going to be tough if I get into a sticky situation. I'm not sure how this match is going to play out, I just hope I have some rats left at the end of it.
     
  17. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    No not all :) just on the first two to level. Level 3 linerats are usually just bloat anyway (seriously I usually sack them, wrackle is nice if you lack tackle but fend is meh). If you have a large squad 2 dp is not bad either.
     
  18. Valcurdra

    Valcurdra Active Member

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    I like fend on any ag 3 or less los player. Saves injury and dodging
     
  19. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    I like it too and its what I take on my level 3 line rats. And I don't sack them straight away, but they are definitely on the cutting board if I can get a wiz or deny the enemy a bribe since a rookie does the job almost as well.
     
  20. Breidr

    Breidr Member

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    Sad day. 0-1 Loss.

    One Linerat lays dead, a Gutter with Smashed Ankle. I think I'm in for a rough season.