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OCC Elvolution (the rebirth..)

Discussion in 'Team Blogs' started by Boffa, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    I got into the SSC and retired and then promptly rehired my original elvolution team (with a few changes in roles and team direction..) This time starting with 3 rerolls 2 catchers 2 blitzers 1 thrower and 6 lineman. Five other teams in league are Ogre Dwarf Amazon Undead and Dark Elves. Couldn't find an article on Elf starting rosters on here, not sure this is the best starting roster but it definitely beats my first one. 8 line elfs 1 catch 2 blitzer 1 thrower 2 rerolls.

    My first game was against Anraka's Ogre team Ogreblitzreig. They starting with 4 rr 7 snotling and 4 ogres. I have to admit I hadn't played Ogres much so I made a few mistakes with the snotlings (who performed better than the Ogres over all who got one BH all game.

    The game started with me choosing to kick and setting up in a central formation leaving room down the LOS but with 1 deep catcher in def. The kick off was throw a rock, which hit the Ogre off the LOS and promptly Badly Hurt him :) The Ogres did their job and knocked over some line elves but failed to injure any and because of the BH loose Ogre only managed to knock over 3 players. A snotling picks up the ball out of range with ogres all on LOS. Run my elves around the wings and onto snotling tacklezones. He moves his snots up the field a bit and fails a dodge on a snotling. DEAD. 11 vs 9. Turnover. Blitz snotling with 3 dice and block and a reroll and cant knock him down!! We tussle for the rest of the half until i burn all 3 of my rerolls trying to knock over annoying sidestepping snotlings who just dont know what a POW is. In turn 8 I manage something like a 2d block push 2+ 3+ (pass reroll) 2+ (catch reroll) TD without too much difficulty although the coach did incredibly well to make it that hard with less numbers and out of position.. snots are really annoying when they wont fall down if they started with more snots this could have been a very different game.

    Second half. They have 2 more snots knocked out and one sent off fouling failing to break the armour of my thrower with an assist! I have 2 knocked out as well. ALL KOS come back. 11 vs 8. Kicks to me. BLITZ. I'd set up quite attacking looking to blitz down one flank and was not well positioned for this. Snotlings dodged through and completely covered the ball landing area in sidestep Tzs and an Ogre smashed a lineelf KO. I manage over 2 or 3 turns to dodge away from ogres and block/blitz snotlings forcing coverage over the ball and take out a few more snots. Eventually I score and kick off again.. score again relatively easily after kicking with 4 turns to go I think as the other team only had 3 ogres and 3 snots for this set up. The last 6 or so turns I had the Ogre team so outnumbered that it's not really worth going over. At the end of the game 7 in Cas box. One death one send off and about 5 BH.

    Rerolled my winnings and got 70k enough for apothecary. 20k banked. My catcher Filverel got 12 out of the teams 22 Spp. FF up. Playing Jormundar's Dark elves next who have a WE MNG and 1 reroll skill pending on a blitzer and 60k in bank with a tv of 890 to my 1080. Assume he'll get an apothecary loner and some inducements. Already given my catcher Filverel block. Thought I had Dwarves matchday 2. Wrong. :p
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  2. Etheric

    Etheric Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you did ok.

    In my opinion the

    2 Blitzer
    2 Catcher
    1 thrower
    6 lineelf
    3 RR
    roster is the best one, would not use any other one really. I suppose an extra catcher and one less RR is also a possibility, but catchers can be SPP hogs and until they get 16 spp they need for dodge and wrestle or dodge they are both quite expensive and pretty vulnerable.

    Snotlings are really annoying. If you can hit them with a player with block and get 3 dice then they are not so hard to get down (70% or 90% with a reroll), without block or tackle it is only 42% or 66% with a reroll, which is far from certain. Especially as you will only normally hit one a turn ( have a look at Samba Action Calculator if you have not seen it already is great for stuff like that, used to work it out by hand which takes a while).

    From your writeup I was not sure, but looked like the final score was 3-0 ? Getting an ogre taken off by a rock on turn one definitely helped, but looks like you put in a solid performance to get a win. Elves are always fun when they have a numerical advantage.

    Anyway grats on the win.
     
  3. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    yeah sorry was a hurried write up i had to go to work... yeah I won 3-0. 3 cas by me one by crowd and 2 by dodge/gfi attempts. Wouldn't hurt to have a bench player soonish if it doesn't give away to many inducements... I've got away with low armour on about 6 or 7 elf games... must be due a massacre.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012
  4. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    Matchday 2 against Jormungar was a 3-0 win where I rolled quite poorly and still managed to win easily although there was some hairy moments before the first turnover td after kicking... there were connection problems in turn 16 so i got an admin win (3-0 though) and had enough money to but another player which i decided not to do as the amazon team i was playing next had 100 tv less then me already. Oh and a lineman got kick..

    Against the Amazons I kicked and had a rather bad start, with a badly hurt foul and dead thrower in turn 2 leaving me 9 vs 12 and the ball safely caged. Eventually I managed to sack the ball carrier and score in the first half and set up 2nd half with 8 elves on the field vs 11. Things didn't get much better when he killed my blitzer with a 1d block but once again I managed after much tussling and outnumbering to pull a td out of my ass and score in turn 13. After this he abandoned the match.

    So I'm 3-0 atm and just bought a new blitzer and thrower to replace the old ones... I also got a 2nd skill on Filverel (block catcher) and gave him dodge as well as a skill on a lineman who got +agi. My next opponent is Undead, 2nd on the ladder as well with 3 wins but less td difference. He has 13 players vs my 11 and only about 40k more tv with 70k in the bank so I think this will be a very tough match to win or survive. Probably going to turn the ag5 lino into a wrestle/stripball/leaper eventually if he lives that long. Will be protecting him as much as possible which isn't really that much!

    my team

    1 catcher unskilled
    1 catcher block dodge
    2 blitzers unskilled
    1 thrower rookie
    4 lineman unskilled
    1 lineman kick
    1 lineman +agi

    3rr 1 apo ff2 40k treasury tv 1170

    Undead team.

    1 wight unskilled
    1 wight tackle
    2 mummy unskilled
    3 ghouls unskilled
    1 ghoul block
    4 zombies unskilled
    1 zombie block
    3rr 3ff 70k treasury tv 1200

    I think this is going to be a very tough game..... any tips on how to go about not getting destroyed in this game would be appreciated.

    Main goals for team at the moment are:

    Survive game.
    Win game.
    Get more players!
    Skill blitzers and ag5 wannabe catcher.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  5. Etheric

    Etheric Well-Known Member

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    Undead are not so nasty. You just need to play standard elfball, not giving him too many blocks and using the standard 1 square per turn defence. Stopping an undead cage can be quite difficult, with two mumies infrount you would find it hard to block them even if he does put cage corners in contact.

    To be honest I found amazons more trouble than undead. With all the dodge it is hard to block back, and a normal amazon team has 4 blodgers, which can be very difficult to deal with with an unskilled pro elf team.

    So stall the cage, try to keep him down to one square per turn advancing the cage, and to (mostly) only have one block ( a blitz) per turn. He does not have a lot of block or tackle which means it becomes a lot harder to get your players down. 3 dice blocks from the mummies with 2 assists can be nasty.

    With the mumies likely to be at the front of the cage you have to attack the back of the cage if you can and try to get to the ball carrier. The key to cage breaking is when the cage corners are in base to base contact with your players, so you can make a block to get them out of the way, then blitz the ball carrier.

    His ghoul with blodge will be tough to deal with as you have to wrestle, tackle or strip ball.
    In general with undead you want to try to stall the cage and hunt down the ghouls when you can. Without the ghouls undead teams are very slow indeed and with av 7, no regen and no apo the ghouls can be a bit vunlerable. Blitzing a ghoul often with a blitzer can be effective.

    Anyway I don't think you will have too much of a problem surviving (assuming you can avoid elf disease, and getting too many ones as you dodge your players out of contact), as he does not have that much block and tackle. Stopping his drives, assuming your opponent makes no mistakes will be tougher though.

    Not sure how useful +ag is on a pro elf lineelf, but good luck with it. The starts of the pro elf team are the blitzers and catchers. I tend to use line elves as fodder. They are quite fragile, but sometimes you need to mark up opponents to cut down on their mobility. I normally end up with 4 lineelves, three for the LOS and a kicker. Probably you don't want a +agi lineelf to be in either role, so that means you either need 5 or to put a blitzer on the LOS.

    Anyway good luck
     
  6. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    With only one dodge you probably need to be very conservative in how you move around, but you dont seem to have had many issues in the previous 3 games so please just do as you did before! :D

    Other than that your targets for the blitzers are those unskilled ghouls in the first place since they dont regen, and then the Tackle Wight maybe as secondary target. Avoid that Wight with your blodge catcher. Avoid the mummies and dont mark them unless absolutely necessary.

    The Blodge catcher can be a good ball carrier as long as you keep it away from the Tackle wight. High mobility and Dodge can be key to have the ball where you want it to be.

    Alternatively you can also consider carrying the ball with the +AG lino aswell as that would allow you a longer 2+ pass range, albeit without pass skill, so it s a bit of a tradeoff.

    "Long" term plans for an AV7 lino are probably worthless, plan his future skills for the short term instead.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  7. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    'The key to cage breaking is when the cage corners are in base to base contact with your players' ha. A pointy-eared fly on the wall heard a quote from The captain of Fun Dead (the team I'm playing) 'The key to killing elves, is tricking them to standing next to you with that ball thing.' I tend to lean towards screening cages (if I can't prevent them from forming) and very rarely rush in if I don't think I can retrieve the ball and get it safely out of range.

    Right now I have 5 line elves so I can field the kicker and the ag lino off the los which is one reason I will be kicking if I win the toss (I pretty much always kick). I won't be getting any more catchers for a while , atleast until I get the rookie one skilled, so having this guy around should be handy to divert attention from my real catchers and being a nuisance. Plus he can pick up/dodge into 1 tz on a 2+ so thats something not to be sniffed at! I did almost pass over the agi as it will probably cost me getting babes on inducements.. but I think long term assuming (stupidly!!!!) that he lives long enough this could be a very valuable player. Considering how fast pros fall over and dont come back on the pitch, linos have to be able to perform all roles under certain circumstances and agi5 is very useful for a stand in anything in a pinch!

    As far as skills go, I want dodge/tackle on blitzers asap and wrestle on my other catcher. wre next lino then spam dodge... am i missing anything essential here? Still getting my feet wet reallly so sure I'm making some stupid mistakes and if anyone can be bothered watching replays (Elvolution- coach boffasmurf ssc6 md3) and tell me how many awful mistakes I've made that would be handy. I find quite often that I make a really stupid mistake and notice it about 3 seconds after I click.. annoying!
     
  8. Citizen Nev

    Citizen Nev Member

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    You're playing Freezing Star's Fundead right? He's an IRL friend of mine and the guy who introduced me to Bloodbowl. Here's what to expect:

    Not many mistakes

    Not much fouling

    If the dice go against him early he's prone to thinking the world's against him and may make more errors

    A cautious playstyle (He doesn't like risking 1die blocks as he believes the dice are out to get him)

    Patience, he'd rather do things right than quickly
     
  9. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    Thanks for that! I just watched a replay where the dice definitely weren't out to get him. 5 knockouts and 4 casualties vs dwarfs. lol. He seems to play well and solid which is what I expected. I have 11 vs 13 and hes not a crap coach so I'm still a bit worried about this game. We both have 0 TD against and I want bragging rights! If I can have 8 elves on the pitch in turn 16 and not get nuffled I should atleast get a draw. Seems to do a few fluff blocks when there are more important actions to do first in particular with his blockless mummys*, so hopefully that can bite him and not just kill an elf for bad turn prioritising. If this game ends up 1-1 and no serious injuries, I won't lose any sleep.. if hes not a fouler thats great because i don't have any reserves... I know in his shoes I'd be fouling every opportunity with zombies.

    Seeing this as my biggest challenge so far, it's a top of the table clash. I will write a proper match report on this game. Thanks for all the suggestions and insider info! Need every edge I can get.

    *one of his mummys is called Dylan Moran, and seemed to carve up Dwarves for breakfast. I used to think Dylan Moran was a funny bugger, we will see after match day.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  10. Etheric

    Etheric Well-Known Member

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    In terms of skills I love having a dodge, Diving tackle blitzer. Then you can use your blitz action to blitz off one of the cage corners then stand your guy with SS and blodge and DT next to the ball carrier, which can be very annoying. Personally I prefer DT rather than tackle. Moving a ball carrier always would be use a RR territory, so I would prefer giving two chances to get 4+ or 5+ rather than one chance (with a probably team RR) to get 2+ or 3+. A 25% or 45% chance of a turnover is something that a conservative

    The SS means you can have fun bouncing around the ball carrier, which can mean you can take a lot of hits, which can be dangerous even with AV8, but can really stall the cage.

    I have to agree that you can get in big trouble as elves by going to agressively for the ball. A normal step back and you will not have anyone in contact, when you alight assists and players to cancel assists so you can block off a corner to blitz the ball carrier it can leave a lot of players vulnerable to a counter blocking.

    For me it is enough to get a 1D hit on the ball carrier, against an ag 3 team it is enough to put the ball on the floor, rather than be able to get it afterwards. A 3+ pickup is again a bit dangerous. Sure I have had games where I have got the ball loose quite a few times and the opponent just picks it up again every time (which normally is a loss), but stealing the ball is my favourate thing.

    I also agree that a wrestle/strip ball catcher is a good player, but I do like working an opening then getting a hit on the ball carrier.

    One of the keys I found with elves is knowing when to run and knowing when to hit. You will normally find that opponents agressively mark up your palyers. You can dodge away every turn, which can work, but 2+ fails and it has no upside. Moving a spare player over to block your opponent off (2D looking for a :pushback: or better) is both better odds and has an upside where you can knock over/injure your opponents. Clearly doing it at the right time is important, and against undead with str 5 mummies getting a 1D block on those can be tough, and not smart. But the str 3 players where you can always get rid of them with 1 assist is always something to look at. I think working out that out helped my elf play a LOT. Using the blitz to free up players, dodging someone to be an assist so you can make a block and so on are really important. GIving up one square per turn as you dodge your line back is ok, but not giving up a square at all as you block back all his players is better.

    I would say the biggest danger in terms of losing is going to be the 2-1 grind. Where he scores on T8 of his drive and then tries to force you to score early or not at all on your drive and scores back in the turns remaining in the half. So to get 1-1 you have to stop your opponent scoring back in the half you have your possession, which might not be so easy.

    If I get some time over the weekend I will see if I can have a look at some of the replays.
     
  11. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Your key with a blodge side-stepper is, like Etheric said, to keep one of them in contact with the ballcarrier at all times. All other of your players stand in the way for advance without touching anyone (except the one giving assists to the marker as he blitzes off a weak corner, a zombie or wight).

    You know the preferred stalling setup? Two guys behind each others, two empty squares, then two other guys behind each others?

    With a sidestepper you can also use a "Two guys behind each others, one empty square, a sidestepper, another empty square, two guys behind each others" if you are running out of people.
     
  12. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    Not sure we can get this game in anyway.. time difference and schedules are not co-operating very well. When I said I'd take a draw, I didn't mean by admin! Oh well... might find a way.
     
  13. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    yeah I kind of get the idea with screening in general.. haven't worked out how best to use sidestep yet but can see how a blodge dt ss next to carrier can definitely cause problems with advancing..
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  14. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    new sig test!
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  15. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Just be aware that the only image sigs allowed are the ones similar to mine - the BBManager ones. Feel free to add that team signature to the first post, though. :)

    We don't need any competition about who can get the biggest signature after all :p
     
  16. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    oh.. whoops!
     
  17. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    No problems. I made the same mistake when I first got a banner from the OCC sig shop :D

    (Your pictures were both nice.)
     
  18. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    looks like we will get a game in, anyone have any tips in how to get up at 7 am and still play good blood bowl? bearing in mind i never get up before 10 and work til midnight! I have excuses lined up already...
     
  19. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Getting up early you'll have to manage on your own (although Narly could have some good tips - playing from Japan apparently means getting up at 5 am to play every second game.)

    To play good Blood Bowl, I can only suggest getting up at 6 if you are supposed to play at 7 - amble around half an hour just to wake up, then eat some breakfast and sit down along with your morning beverage of choice to play at 7.
     
  20. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    Daylight savings time in England ment that we missed our fist scheduled match as I was an hour late or he was an hour early whichever way you want to look at it! Managed to catch Freezing Star Saturday afternoon instead when quite drunk and he was gracious enough to give me an hour to sober up (a bit) before the game. I say a bit because after winning the toss and deciding to kick (not bad) i set up my team with the kicker on the line! (bad!) and I like to think I don't do this when I'm fully sober..

    Anyway, the game started in Sweltering heat which might be why the slightly intoxicated coach made such a stupid move. It stayed sweltering heat all game which when you have no reserves is not ideal vs a 2 bench regenerating undead side.

    Although the coach wasn't particularly switched on this game and a little intoxicated the team seemed quite fired up wanting to prove that they were not only the best and only elves in the league but also the best team in the league by beating the equally top placed Undead team and showed this with a blitz on the first kick. There have been some serious questions about whether a kicker may have allowed better explotiation of this blitz (quietly and out of earshot of the coach) but as it was there was no way to actually mark the ball. So all that could be managed was to blitz a ghoul down on the right wing sending a few loose elves through the gap, mark the tackle wight and set up a defensive screen deeper on the left flank.

    The Undead responded by knocking down the LOS knocking out a lineelf and surround the ball with ghouls. After no less than three ghouls have surrounded the ball the last one picks it up and runs it up to the los in a 3 corner cage with mummys and wights.

    Elvolution knock down the loose Wight on the right flank to free up Filverel (block dodge catcher) who blitzes and knocks over the ghoul ball carrier with a dodge from the weak corner after a blitzer moves in for sidestep coverage. Ball scatters away from the catcher and the blitzer to a mummy on the los who drops it even further forward towards the elven endzone which is covered by one elf and another once he dodges away from a mummy.

    Undead mark up elves swarming in in an attempt to start a scrum. A mummy blitzes down one of the lineelfs marking the ball and then knocks down the blitzer lurking in scoring range. Moves 2 more tackle zones on the ball and screens it from most of my players but does not try to pick it up.

    I push away the blodge ghoul guarding the ball and get a lot of assists to dislodge a mummy as well. leaving once again 2 unmarked tackle zones on the ball and feeling pretty safe

    Undead set up a 2d chain push which would have completly cleared the ball except only get push after reroll on sidestep blitzer.

    Tussle for the ball ensues and after 2 pushes onto the ball eventually it luckily bounces into the clear and after clearing the blitzer who is furthest down field move in the agility 5 lineelf to lob a long pass to him. he catches it but is far from in the clear with a loose zombie wight and ghoul all in range and only one slightly worried looking thrower supporting him.

    Undead send ghouls towards the ball and cover the ball carrier blitzer with a wight. Knock some other elves over (lots fall over but none really get hurt, i think there was a KO in there somewhere) Block ghoul blitzes blitzer with the wights assist and knocks him over KOing him as well. Ball scatters free and the ghoul fails the pick up leaving 2 undead TZs on the ball with one thrower in contact with the ghoul.

    Elves blitz the ghoul of the ball with the throwers assist knocking him down but no dmg and the thrower than moves in to pick up the ball in a tacklezone dodge out and score. (3+ 2+ with rr)

    1-0 Elvolution. Both KOs come back and than 2 more elves go out to sweltering heat so kick of 11 vs 9. (Note that in his slightly intoxicated state the coach was confused why his 2 KOS who stood up were sitting back down again, forgetting about the heat! And the kicker is of off the LOS this time).

    Undead get a quick snap and a Wight blitzes a blitzer knocking him down but again not hurting him. Also clear the LOS failing to do more than one stun. Covers the ball with backfield ghouls and then fails the pick up out of range of any elves.

    Elves manufacture 2d blocks to push most of the undead out of there tacklezones and form a screen to stall the undead who decide wisely to foul a blitzer with a zombie badly hurting him before moving up and after another turn of block reposition stalling the undead only have one wight in scoring range at the end of turn 7 who is promptly double marked and blitzed down making it impossible for the equaliser before half time. Somewhere in here a zombie is BH but regens. The dead ones do some innefective blocking and go for a completion which fails. (really should get agilitly 4 imo!)

    So Half Time it's 1-0 and the undead have to kick to the elves.

    All Elf KOs come back, none succumb to heat and the non-tackle wight goes down from the heat. (These Wights seem pretty soft on a hot day!) The Undead set up central with only one ghoul protecting each widezone. Fans get annoyed with the lack of mutilation so take out there frustration on the referee and the undead perhaps distracted by this kick the ball out of bounds giving a touchback to the elven thrower.

    Elves clear LOS (all pushes) blitz the ghoul on the right flank but cant knock him down, run a catcher and line elf up both sides of the field and the thrower moves up a bit still screened effectively enough to be out of range of the slower Undead on the LOS.

    Undead mark the receivers on both sides and blitz Filverel against the sidelines jammed between a mummy and a ghoul. So the elves throw a quick pass to the other catcher who manages a risky 1d blitz push then a dodge and 2 gfi (using a reroll on the last gfi) TD in turn 10 making it 2-0.

    This would seem like a very strong position to be in and after a deep kick and a failed pick up and a bit of repositioning from the undead team, somehow the hopeless elven coach misjudges the movement of a ghoul and tells his players not to mark him and to move back to get him if he should break into the field. Said ghoul receives a hand off breaks into the field and gfi's into the touchdown zone. Coach scratches his head... 2-1.

    All the elves come back from the sweltering heat and 2 skillless zombies dont get up for the drive but as they were probably reserves anyway this doesnt really matter... they all look the same anyway.

    Undead set up with a wight on one flank so the elves set up heavy down the other and blitz a ghoul but once again roll defender stumbles and cant knock them down... meaning there is no gap in the line and suddenly panic sets in. The ball is moved up to the cleared LOS and cage screened reasonably effectively. At this stage coach really wasn't sure whether to try and hold onto the ball or get a TD to put it out of doubt....

    Things become a bit easier when a blitz by a mummy on the cage uses a reroll for a gfi and then dbl skulls. The cage is repositioned down the right side away from the wide wight a bit and a zombie is fouled (bribe) to stun so he cant just stand up and blitz the ball carrier. Flood a few receivers screeners through a gap and one catcher is deep in there half. However he is then blitz stunned and the front of the cage is overrun with mummys and zombies. Elves do a bit of tussling and find another elf in range who eventually and improbably runs it in after another quick pass for a touchdown. Was a 2+ 2+ 3+ and an interception roll after a 1 dice block without block so quite lucky.

    After this the elves decided they had won and didnt want to get into a pointless fight with dead things so set up with 3 poor lineelves on the LOS and everyone else hiding in the backfield. The undead beat up the LOS fouling them but once again couldn't do any damage. Eventually the Undead got a consolation touchdown in the last turn, but the Elves didn't seem to care as they were all alive and still unbeaten which was a better result then deserved after some of the poor coaching decisions. But they'll take it!

    My d6 was something like +18 and 2d6 was +12. He was a much better coach than me and I just kept getting away with rolls (15/15 gfi i think..) and he just couldnt injure my players. Sweltering heat could have been so much worse if he got a few injuries to go with it (3/3 KO returns as well..) So while I won this game, it was pretty lucky and definitely not a deserved win.... moving on though...

    rolled 40k for winnings so now have 80k and rolled a normal skill for a catcher. I'm thinking block for receiver capabilities. Not dodge as I play dwarves last game. Wrestle I'm thinking on a 3rd catcher.. just 2 with block that can stand up with NOS should make offence more effective then wrestle I think. Also think I might buy another thrower as I need a reserve badly and cant afford a catcher maybe try to get my blitzers some lvls, still 2 spp between them so while they play well they aren't getting any levels. Not sure about wrestle/block though.. my thinking is on offence I want 2 more likely to be standing NOS catchers.. but no wrestle/tackle or strip ball could be a problem so I either have to priorities those skills on others or take wrestle I guess?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2012