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OCC - Magnificent Mythos

Discussion in 'Team Blogs' started by Slyspy, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. Barninho

    Barninho Well-Known Member

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    I would take Guard every time on an elf double unless it was double 6, until I had a few. Sometimes if I roll a double with a low AV player I'll take MB as I don't want them in the thick of it. MV is great, AV is OK, but the double skills are better value for me and Guard is vital for any elf team.
     
  2. Lebe666

    Lebe666 Well-Known Member

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    Guard for sure. I have only 1 in my Elf team and its essential. If your players get too mixed in Guard will help you get out.
     
  3. Slyspy

    Slyspy Member

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    Ok then. In an attempt to bolster my enthusiasm I'll start doing some proper write ups.

    Magnificent Mythos now look like this:

    Achilles (Blitzer): Block, +1 ST, Dodge, Side Step.
    Charon II (Blitzer): Block, Guard.
    Agamemnon (Thrower): Pass, Safe Throw, Block, Dodge.
    Lykourgos (Catcher): Catch, +1 AG, Block, Dodge.
    Erebus II (Thrower): Pass, Safe Throw.
    Evander (Lino): Wrestle.
    Leander II (Catcher): Catch, Dodge.
    Menelaos II (Lino): Rookie.
    Nemesis (Lino): Kick, Dodge.
    Nikephoros (Lino): Dodge, Wrestle.
    Patroclus (Lino): Guard.
    Xanthe (Catcher): Catch, Wrestle, Tackle.
    Philandros (Catcher): Catch, Block, Mighty Blow, Tackle.
    Adrastos: (Lino): Rookie.
    4 rerolls.
    1980 TV.

    Development plan (Nuffle not withstanding:
    Rookie Linos need work. Menelaos just needs a completion and then he might survive on the line!
    Patroclus needs some defensive skills to protect the asset of his Guard. He spends alot of time KOed. Only 10 SPP yet to go!
    Erebus needs some passing skills. He is destined to be a dedicated thrower.
    Beyond that we'll see what happens!

    So far we've been defeated by a well drilled Chaos team. The second game, against a nearly new Human team unhappily had to be adminned but at least I didn't have to face Morg! Our next game is against a 1350 TV skaven side coached by EasyComputer who have won their first two games.

    Their TV is low due to casualties. They currently have ten players fit. Crucially their ST4 MB PO Stormvermin is out. One Grunner is a rookie. The others are:
    Blodge, SS, +1 MV.
    Blodge, Guard, Big Hand.
    Blodge, +1 ST, Horns, Tackle.

    So the well developed Grunners will keep my Tacklers busy (especially Philandros with his MB) while his Kicker could make things tricky. He only has one Guard player (the other Stormvermin), no Rat Ogre and no bench. This may change since he does have plenty of cash in the bank. I'll also probably be up against a few inducements, but I don't have much experience of playing with such a TV gap.

    Any of the three star Grunners that ends up on the floor will take a boot in the face, especially the ST3 blitzing rat. I shall try and isolate the Guard Vermin to gain local advantage. Generally though I'm rubbish at playing against Skaven, so any advice is welcome!
     
  4. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Skaven down to 11 players was what I faced in my OCC MD 3 game too. Try causing 8 casualties in the first 7 turns - that should help :p

    (Although you are also handing out inducements through the wazoo - a wizard and a bunch of mercenary linerats is probably coming, which means you need to play for "reals")

    Philandros needs to hit something every turn (if no gutter is available, get an assist and hit a thrower or lineman).

    Other than that, I'd suggest trying for a shootout in the first half. (Not like you can stall anyway, what with super-rat and a wizard around..)
     
  5. Slyspy

    Slyspy Member

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    Sadly we only caused 1 casualty - a dead newbie Linerat. We did get loads of KOs, but they mean little when your opponent has two Babes!

    The result was a disappointing 2-2 draw. He won the toss and chose to kick. I completely fluffed my drive, failing utterly to secure the ball and getting turned over fast. I scored an equaliser but in the second half I once again failed to defend against the Gutter Runners who scored fairly quickly. I then decided that grinding the last turns for a draw was best, worried that if I scored the equaliser quickly then he would have time to score a winner. Not exciting, but that level of ball control was exactly what I needed from the beginning!

    Fortunately his wizard only prevented me from scoring the equaliser more sooner. Had he not fried my Catcher then the Skaven might have had enough time to win the game! This induced Rat Ogre had both Frenzy and Grab, but he agreed not to use the latter considering the rules. The Rat Ogre didn't achieve anything anyway. Strangely he also induced a Block Thrower.

    Two of my players leveled:

    Agamemnon (Thrower): Pass, Safe Throw, Block, Dodge, normal skill.
    Xanthe (Catcher): Catch, Wrestle, Tackle, normal skill.

    Agamemnon is going to be the runner of the team. Get the ball to him, secure it and then advance with it. The idea is that any pass he makes will the the final pass to the receiver who goes on to score. Hence the defensive skills - he'll be a target. Considering his role I was going to go for Nerves Of Steel for that pass and then Dump Off for when it looks like he's in real trouble. I like the idea of having the option.

    Xanthe is a backfield blitzer, designed to attack receiver and ball carriers or maybe just mark them. Dodge might be nice, as it is for all Elves, but maybe other skills like Side Step, Pass Block or Diving Tackle may improve his effectiveness?

    As always, any advice is welcome!
     
  6. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    Impressive that the ogre could get grab:confused: The world of Cyanide never stops to amaze me:powdodge:
     
  7. Slyspy

    Slyspy Member

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    My next game was also against a Skaven team with a significantly lower TV. This time it was Hung Donkeyman's Of Mice and Men. Once agin they had developed Gutter Runners, including one with MV10, Sprint and Sure Feet. How I hate them! He also had a Block/Guard Rat Ogre which is not nice, but only one fit Stormvermin. His inducements went on a Wizard, a Dirty Player Linerat and a Bribe.

    The Mice chose to receive and, having learnt from my last SKaven game, I set up with my SS Blitzer covering one flank and a Wrestle Catcher on the other so as to make it difficult to blitz a gap. If the rats want to run down the more open centre then they are welcome!

    Unhappily for them a riot flattened five of their players, includig the Rogre and most of the LoS and both of their Throwers. Their Stormvermin KOed my Wrestle Catcher but the Grunner who recovered the ball fluffed the pass to his colleague so the gap was wasted. Mythos took the Stormvermin out injured and Lykourgos (AG5 Catcher) recovered the ball from behind the recumbent rat LoS and passed it back to Agamemnon (Thrower) who was behind a small screen of Elves. The rats tried to mark him up but he got away and passed it back up field to Lykourgos. The rest of the squad KOed their experienced Thrower and moved up in support. A brief encounter with a fireball lays Lykourgos out and a scrum ensues. At one point a Grunner ends up with the ball, but we grab it back. A failed dodge sees a blitzing Grunner KOed and Lykougos runs it in for the TD. 1-0

    Turn five and the Mice recieve, KOing an Elf Lineman on the LoS. Then an early and ineffective foul gets their hired Dirty Player sent off (what a waste of inducements!) without the ball being moved. Mythos mark the Grunners and hold the line, but the Rogre KOs Patroclus (Guard Lineman who really needs Block) and before we know it a Grunner has the ball two squares away from our EZ! We mark him up and blitz him with a Tackler, but to no avail. A successful Dodge and the Mice score an equaliser. 1-1

    So Mythos receive on our turn seven, forming on the LoS ready to rush them. The kick is deep but we open a gap ahead of it. Three receivers rush through the gaps in the Skaven line (don't leave gaps!). Erebus (newbie Thrower) retrieves and passes up to Agamemnon who is screened on the LoS. The Mice pierce the screen and mark him up, but to no avail. The veteran Thrower uses his new Nerves of Steel skill to pass the ball out of the scrum to Leander (Dodge Catcher) who scores just before half time. 2-1

    At the start of the second half we set up to rush them again. A perfect defence and a deep kick hinder that plan. We clear the LoS as best we can while the two Throwers cover and retrieve the ball. Then three Grunners make a total of nine Dodge rolls through TZs, plus a 1D block needing a :pow: and disposess Agamemnon deep in the Elven half, grabbing the ball themselves. We are one turn away from being turned over on our drive and things are looking bad! A few Elves rush back from the LoS and some nifty positioning see the ball carrier sufed but the ball ends up on the opposite flank. Unhappily a failed Block ends our turn with the ball uncovered and at the mercy of yet another Grunner. We are now two turns away from being turned over! Thankfully he fails his pick up roll. We cover the ball but fail to blitz the Grunner away (damn GFI). On the plus side we KO another Grunner and then his Rogre fails his blitz to clear the ball! Eventually the ball is recovered by one of our Linemen, with the last Grunner KOed off the pitch in the process, who passes it to Leander on the LoS. He dashes away and holds it deep in their half while we pummel the remaining rats. A few turns of largely ineffective bashing and fouling and then he steps over the line to score our third before the match ends! 3-1

    Over all I was much more pleased with out performance. On paper this Skaven team was much more of a threat than the previous one with a one turner Grunner, decent Thrower and a reliable Rogre. But I learnt from my mistakes last time and covered space much better. Plus I was able to remove his positionals at key moments (for which Nuffle will no doubt exact a toll later). My AG5 Catcher did his thing, grabbing the ball from many a TZ while I was truely pleased to see Agamemnon's NoS come in so useful so quickly since it was instrumental in scoring a second TD in the last two turns of the first half. Without it he would have had to have dodged away from the prehensile tail of the Rat Ogre and made a longer pass which, Dodge and Pass aside, would have been more hero than play!

    Leander, by newest Catcher, was the only level up this game. He already has Dodge so really the choice is between Block and Wrestle. I already have one Wrackler for attacking ball carriers, one Blackler (?) with MB for hitting things and one AG5 Blodger for recieving the ball. Plus my Linos have taken Wrestle. So this last Catcher is set either for the post of marker or blitzer. I feel the need for a Dauntless player eventually and this might just be the player for the job! But Wrestle or Block?
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  8. Slyspy

    Slyspy Member

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    My next game is Saturday morning (I'm not good at mornings!) against a Khemri team called Howard Carter's Start Up coached by McHardoc.

    This will be a new aspect of BB for me since I have never played a proper league game against a Khemri team before. In fact I may not have ever played one coached by an actual person!

    Once again I'm giving away nearly 500TV worth of inducements so what that will bring I'm not sure. Probably a wizard, maybe a star?

    He has four Guardians with MB but only one has Block. Hopefully they will cause more turnovers than casualties! Both Blitz-Ra have Tackle which my Elves don't like, but the MB one has a niggle which makes him a juicy target. One Throw-Ra is a rookie, the other has Block and Fend. The only significant Skeleton is one with the team's only Guard and Dodge (?!).

    My plan is to use my superior speed and agility to make loose balls a nightmare for them. I'll try and attack their ball carriers from the off and separate them from the Guardians. Hopefully I can achieve this by screening them off, but if need be I'll mark the Guardians with Wrestlers and laugh as we drag them down. I'll not be adverse to fouling them out since Decay can cause real issue. Likewise the Throw-Ras might be a tempting target. The key to both defence and offence, as I see it, is not to get boxed in since this transfers the advantage from my speed to his strength. So this means on defence we try and spread them out while on attack we use screens rather than cages.

    If I'm lucky enough to do well then I'd like to try and develop Charon (my newest Blitzer) and Patroclus (my Guard Lineman who really really needs Blodge asap). Menelaos still needs his 1SPP for his first skill. He spent most of the last game in the casualty box!

    Achilles (Blitzer): Block, +1 ST, Dodge, Side Step.
    Charon II (Blitzer): Block, Guard.
    Agamemnon (Thrower): Pass, Safe Throw, Block, Dodge, Nerves of Steel.
    Lykourgos (Catcher): Catch, +1 AG, Block, Dodge.
    Erebus II (Thrower): Pass, Safe Throw.
    Evander (Lino): Wrestle.
    Leander II (Catcher): Catch, Dodge, Block.
    Menelaos II (Lino): Rookie.
    Nemesis (Lino): Kick, Dodge.
    Nikephoros (Lino): Dodge, Wrestle.
    Patroclus (Lino): Guard.
    Xanthe (Catcher): Catch, Wrestle, Tackle.
    Philandros (Catcher): Catch, Block, Mighty Blow, Tackle.
    Adrastos: (Lino): Rookie.
    4 rerolls.
    2040 TV.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  9. nufflehatesme

    nufflehatesme Member

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    gl mate, personally i hate facing khemri. if marking guardians without block, give him dodge players to hit as only a pow will get u down, while :bothdown: = turnover. nemesis and nikephoros look like prime candidates.
    i think u should be right though as your team is starting to look pretty solid (famous last words, i didnt jinx u i swear!)
     
  10. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Agreed on the "dodgers against non-block guardians" - wrestle is actually a drawback against those, because if he picks both down then you get to choose between not using wrestle (for turnover but taking a hit) or using wrestle and possibly letting him go on.

    Wrestle against the block guardian is perfect though (or wrodge, if you got it) - tears him down and steals his move, just like you intended.

    And if you want to get some Khemri training in, I got a 1270ish Khemri team in the CTA, so you can get a feel for ST 5 bashery beforehand ;)
     
  11. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Interesting to see positive results on the NoS thrower build neglecting the classic Accurate route. May need to try it one day.
     
  12. Slyspy

    Slyspy Member

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    Yes, I was pleased to get see it prove useful so quickly. The idea is that the Thrower holds the ball behind the screen or in the cage until it is time for him to release it. This may be because it is time to score but is just as likely to be because he is under pressure and needs to clear it. I prefer this kind of running game paired with short passes.

    The other Thrower is going to be built as a typical long range thrower but he stubbornly refuses to gather any SPP. He always seem to fluff the pass or get blatted before he can score!
     
  13. Lebe666

    Lebe666 Well-Known Member

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    Why not make the long range thrower first ?
     
  14. Slyspy

    Slyspy Member

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    For a number of reasons. Firstly the team started with a single Thrower but no Catchers, so passing plays were a little more risky. Secondly any starting Elf team needs Dodge far more than it needs Accurate. So once the player who first picks up the ball has Dodge and starts running with it it is only natual to give him Block to further protect him especially since it is often safer to Dodge away than to pass it. Now he can do both or either! Thirdly, a Blodger is useful on attack or defence whereas you can only throw the ball if you already have it.

    Edit:

    His next skill with probably be Dump Off just for kicks and giggles. Or maybe Sure Hands. Either will defend against Strip Ballers.

    Edit:

    Accurate wouldn't have helped much in the last game since he was stood in two TZs and Prehensile Tail made a dodge risky.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  15. Slyspy

    Slyspy Member

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    Well we lost our game against the Khemri. Thats right, a High Elf side lost against a significantly less experienced Khemri team. It isn't the losing that bothers me but the jeers from the crowd!

    The fact that first half I used all four rerolls in the first four turns and that at the end of the game he still had one spare (on an AG2 team!) should give you a hint of how it went. So should the fact that his blockless Guardians didn't turn over once! BB Manager shows that I was less unlucky with the D6 rolls than him (but I rolled more than twice as many, plus it is timing which counts) and luckier on 2D6 rolls too. For some reason there is no Block Dice data available.

    The Start-Ups chose to receive and the kick went deep. They attempted to make a gap on the left but failed to get through so Mythos counter down the open flanks sending both Blitzers and two Catchers through to threaten Arthur C Mace (the Throw-Ra) who had managed the pick up first time! They respond by forming a huddle around the ball carrier while the other half of the team punch the Elf Linemen downfield. The Elves push into the huddle but then Charon fails dodge trying to lend his Guard to the mix. The Khemri clear the markers and foul Achilles out KOed with their hireling Dirty Player Skeleton but despite this the ball remains stationary inside their half. Charon clambers to is feet and marks up the ball carrier before Philandros comes blitzing in, taking the Throw-Ra out KOed! The ball ends up in one Khemri TZ. Xanthe covers the ball while Lykourgos swoops in, picks it up and scoops it away towards the opposition end zone. Things are looking good - we have possession on their drive and the bulk of their Guardians are too far away from the action.

    This makes the undead things angry and they smash Adrastos out with a broken collar bone, a career cut short before it began. Then Lykougos gets zapped by a wizard and it all gets a bit complicated. The ball is covered by a Khemri TZ and Xanthe is pressed against the sideline by Howard Carter (Blitz-Ra) himself. Once again Philandros comes to the rescure, blitzing Howard away and killing him dead (more dead?). His body lands on the ball which scatters badly, landing right between a Guardian and the hireling Skeleton. Underterred the Elves take their chance. Nikephorus moves up in support, needing to reroll a dodge in the process thanks to a Tackle player. Xanthe sprints forward, ready for the scoring pass. Lykourgos dives between the two Khemri players and retrieves the ball. Desperate to get away from at least one of them he dodges again, but this time goes sprawling and the ball is loose once more.

    The Start-Ups respond with surprising vigour, fouling the unfortunate Lykourgos out KO'd. They cover the ball with three players while downfield the Elven defence is pushed futher back (and down) by the Tomb Guardians. The Elven forwards meanwhile blitz one Skeleton away from the ball while marking up the others. There is a brief scuffle in which neither team can win the ball and then Charon fails his 2D blitz to free up the ball. Double skulls and no rerolls left! This is a critical moment. Xanthe, the only Elf covering the ball is blitzed out KO'd while the two backfield Elves, Evander and Nemesis are stunned and KO'd respectively. Reroll in hand hte Khemri make their play. The loner skeleton picks up the ball and hands of to another skeleton. He chances it and hurries into the Elven half, two go for its making sure that he is out of range of any Elf except Evander who lies stunned on the astrogranite. They trot the ball in on their turn eight. 0-1

    We set up for our turn eight ready to score, although we'll need a friendly kick off result to put the clock back (I've never got the hang of one turners, especially with ST5 players in the way). Instead it is a Blitz which in which Patroclus is KO'd and the rest of the team marked up. Mythos push the lurching dead off them and then drag down Sebhotis (Blitz-Ra) and foul him out Ko'd. Meanwhile Menelaos sharpens his passing skills before the referee calls half time.

    So now we are kicking with ten Elves. A Perfect Defence makes things interesting, but Philandros KOs a player on the left flank and runs through the gapHe is followed by Leander while others mark up the Khemri LoS. Thrower Erebus, the eternal rookie, grabs at the ball and misses, forcing us to use a reroll on turn one. However he makes the pass to Agamemnon who is screened just short of the LoS. The Start-Ups mark up the receivers and the screening players and KO Evander on the LoS but Mythos are able to free up their catchers and clear a path on the sideline. Agamemnon heads for the gap, screened on the LoS by his teammates. Things look shakey when Philandros is blitzed into the dug out badly hurt but then the hireling skeleton attacked Charon who knocks him to pieces. On a roll the blitzer then KOs another, allowing Agamemnon to dash deep into the Khemri half.

    With a crunch Nikephorus is laid low by a Guardian. It looks bad, but the apothecary actually does his job and patches him up. Meanwhile the Khemri put pressure on the seven remaining Elves, including marking the ball carrier. Feeling that time is not on their side Mythos free up Leander who receives a pass from Agamemnon and dashes in for the score on our turn twelve. 1-1

    Now Mythos are on defence again and once again down a player. Still, against a Khemri side missing an experienced Throw-Ra and a with a dead captain we are confident of rescuing the draw or even gaining the advantage.

    It is immediately apparent that this isn't going to happen. Nemesis' kick is wayward and high. It lands in the Khemri end zone where the Throw-Ra fails to catch it. It bounces off the bewildered undead and off the pitch. The resulting touchback sees it in the hands of a Tomb Guardian on the LoS. This disaster is made worse when Achilles is taken off KOed, leaving the flank weakened. Then Xanthe fails a 1D blitz to mark up the ball carrier shortly before Agamemenon is left stunned by the sideline. The flank is open and the Khemri lurch towards the Elven end zone. Xanthe tries a blitz on the ball carrier, hoping to Wrestle it down but only pushes it back and soon it is just a turn away from scoring. Meanwhile the rest rest of the Elves are boxed in near the LoS and Menelaos gets KO'd.

    No one can reach the ball carrier without alot of dice rolls, but Leander tries anyway. He makes his dodges but the blitz against the stonger player results in two skulls and the Catcher goes down. The Khemri stall for turn, giving Leander another shot, but with his ears still ringing from the last punch he fails to dodge past the screening skeleton. The Khemri score the winner on the last turn. 1-2

    Overall I was pleased with the game but not the result, which I'm convinced is largely down to the terrible kick after I had equalised. Plus the Khemri team proved more reliable then the Elves which is a little depressing with hardly any forced turn overs (I remember two, the loner hurting himself and a Skeleton failing a dodge. Neither were essential). I used my rerolls very quickly and in at least one case I probably should have let the original roll stand. The opposition were fortunate enough to level my defence just when they needed to on both drives (as an example, Nikephorus has Wrestle and Dodge but it didn't protect him at all). It is very annoying not to have the block dice stats. My defence in the second half was shoddy - I should have pulled my LoS back before attempting the blitz to mark the carrier. Or not tried the blitz at all. But hey ho, at least I only look one unimportant casualty. The trouble is that without wins I'm losing money at this TV.

    Two players levelled with normal skills: Menelaos gets his first skill. Probably Wrestle or Dodge. Nikephoros got the MVP (presumably either for getting punched every single turn or for bleeding all over the apothcary) and needs something to go with Wrestle and Dodge but I don't know what.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  16. Slyspy

    Slyspy Member

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    I chose Dauntless for Nikephoros since he spent the whole of the last match getting punched in the face by a Tomb Guardian. With some stronger teams coming up I wanted someone who could at least floor big guys. I was going to give Menelaos a sensible first skill but went for Sneaky Git instead. I rarely get much of a gang foul going since it puts half the team in one place so this skill gives me the chance to put the boot in every turn without risk. Maybe he'll get Dirty Player next, but maybe not.

    Our next match is a mirror match against Reverendo's Excelsior Jesters High Elf team. On paper they are the inferior team but our comparative results say other wise! They are also missing a few players, so I'll be giving away 600+ TV in inducements. I'm expecting something fearsome like Morg and a Wizard, but on the plus side his missing players are both Blitzers and one of his two Catchers!

    His team has one more Guard than mine but significantly less protective skills with just two Block, one Wrestle and no Dodge He has a Kicker (at -1 MV and -1 AV) and a Sneaky Git. The Throwers are designed as one runner and one passer, but again with few skills.

    He only has three rerolls (unless he induces any) so my plan was to mark them up and wait for them to fail. If they don't fail then we'll hit them. Again, on paper, this is another match we should win but can we do it this time?
     
  17. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    600K?

    Be prepared for a Wizard (guaranteed) and most likely Eldril Sidewinder and his NoS+Pass Block+Hypnogaze (intercepting with 55% success chance, Safe Throw notwithstanding, irrespective of tackle zones). He is also skilled with MA8, Catch and Dodge so a threat to be reckoned with in itself.

    That would be 350K already. After that I d go for a mix of bribes, RR and babes.
     
  18. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    If it is 620k you could get Zarah, Eldril and a Wizard against you. Which would be fairly painful, I can imagine.

    Lower than that and I'd take the wizard, possibly Eldril and probably a dodging blitzer mercenary.
     
  19. Slyspy

    Slyspy Member

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    Yes, my current estimate is that he'll have 640 points to spend.

    Eldril might be a scoring threat, but I have the skills to take him out. Zara could be a pain, she is a bit of a bargain. As for a wizard, I'll just play as usual and ride it out.

    Will he resist the temptation to go for DP and bribes though?
     
  20. Slyspy

    Slyspy Member

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    That was the worst game ever. I gave up bothering my turn 12 since I was having zero fun.

    I have subsequently sent pms to the admins of all the leagues I'm currently playing in informing them that I am withdrawing.

    I don't mind losing, but I do want to have fun in my spare time and at the moment I'm not getting any from Blood Bowl.

    Cheers guys.