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Orc Orc Starting Roster

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Thurgrim, Oct 6, 2010.

  1. Thurgrim

    Thurgrim New Member

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    I noticed that there is no orc team in the TV1000 League Starting rosters section. So what would be your suggestion for a new player starting out as orcs? A friend of mine that has never played before wants to try them out, but I've never played them before.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    4 Blitzers, 4 Black Orcs, 3 Rerolls then up to 11 with Throwers and Linemen depending on your preference.
     
  3. S1nner

    S1nner Member

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    A friend of mine plays a lot of orcs, and he always starts with:
    1 Troll
    4 Black Orc
    4 Blitzer
    1 Lineorc
    1 Thrower
    2 Reroll

    I would start with this setup, though I know a lot of ppl do not like big guys. If you don't want the troll, the only other option is the one coach posted.
     
  4. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    It is not so much that people don't want to Troll (though I can't blame them if they don't want one) it lets you afford three rerolls if you don't. Otherwise you have to drop one of the Blitzers or Black Orcs which is less desirable.
     
  5. Thurgrim

    Thurgrim New Member

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    Cool, thanks for the ideas, looks like he'll be going with:

    4 Blitzers
    4 Black Orcs
    1 Thrower
    2 Lineman
    3 Re-Rolls

    He's joining a league where the other teams are mostly fast/agile teams so I suggested Orcs over Humans since he'd have to play humans as a weaker bashing team against all the elves and skaven.
     
  6. S1nner

    S1nner Member

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    Ah, didn't consider needing 3 rerolls on an Orc team. Surehands+4 block players should keep you from having to burn a lot of rerolls, and two seems like enough to start out with(to me). However, you could make a case for starting with 3. Black Orcs are your main turnover worry(1in9 chance every block), it just depends on how much you rely on blocking with them I guess.

    @OP
    Since your friend is a new player, I will recant and suggest your friend goes with Coach's lineup. The urge to block every turn with a St4 player will be too great. I know when I first started, I took every 2die block I could...
     
  7. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    That and it gives you more scope with attempting dodges and doing go for its as well.
     
  8. Runi

    Runi Member

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    There are really quite few teams that I would start with less then three re-rolls. At the moment I can only think of Dark and High Elves, because their players are so expensive and you need them.

    With Orks I always use the team that Thurgrim listed in his last post. I don't normally have anything against big guys, but with the Troll I would make an exception (though not the only one, there are other big guys that I wouldn't really take on certain teams). The reason is that he is expensive and probably the worst big guy you can take. Really stupid is certainly the worst negative skill of all, as it is basically Bonehead that will fail more often. Regeneration is nice, but how often does a Troll get knocked down anyway? And after that he has decent armour, so it's not really likely he will even need that skill.

    So in terms of team value, the troll really doesn't add in usefulness compared to what he adds in giving you less inducements or more to your opponent. I only take the troll when playing against the computer in the PC game, but would rarely buy him against a real opponent.


    Of course, that's just what I think about starting and developing an Ork team. To every team there are different approaches. What people tell you is usually their favourite, but not necessarily the best or only one.
     
  9. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    I guess I'll be the voice in support of the poor Troll then. Sure he isn't the best Big Guy but he still is a big guy. Str5 is quite nice especially in some match ups and with good playing habits you can generally ensure your Really Stupid penalty is minimized for the most part. Personally I would always take the troll at some point the only question to me is when.

    I'll be the first however to throw a "meh" at the Orc Thrower. Compared to the Human Thrower he just isn't worth his points to me. Sure he gets Sure Hands but frankly you can get that on a Lineman easy enough and I don't really see the point in building one up to be a potential passer. It just seems like a fair number of points tied up in an "optional" play style that Orcs just are not built for. Without that he is just a weaker, more expensive lineman.

    So I would either start with:
    1x Troll
    4x Black Orc
    4x Blitzer
    2x Lineman
    2x Rerolls
    30k saved for your Apoth
    *If you felt like a troll*
    ~or~
    4x Black Orcs
    4x Blitzers
    3x Lineman
    3x Rerolls
    30k saved for your Apoth.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  10. otzenpunk

    otzenpunk New Member

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    I disagree. While Orcs are definitely not the team to play the classical passing game, with lots of receivers dodging into scoring range and launching long bombs to them, it may quite often be necessary to throw the ball in your own half, when the clock is running against you. With a little bad luck during your opponent's kick-off, the pure running game could take up to three turns just to get the ball back to the LoS, while forming the cage with a blitzer or lineman, and throwing the ball into it, takes just one or maximum two.

    Of course you won't need to choose the typical thrower skills like Accurate, Safe Throw, etc. for this guy, but skill him up more like a normal lineman, make him a kicker, or sth like that.
     
  11. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    If you don't skill him up with Accurate and such then he isn't any better at throwing then a Lineman with a team reroll. If you do then you're wasting TV on skills you're only going to be using rarely.

    I just don't see why the Thrower as worth 20k and -AV. If it didn't have that -AV I'd be much more accepting but...
     
  12. Gerard

    Gerard New Member

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    A friend of mine likes:

    4 Black Orcs
    4 Blitzers
    3 Goblins
    4 Rerolls

    =1000k on the nose.

    Then sack the Gobbos after the first game and you get 3 free lineorcs as journeymen. I'm not sure I'm convinced it's worth it just to get the 4th reroll. To be honest I would nearly keep the gobbos instead of having to rely on Loners. Thoughts?

    As for optimum rerolls, I've been getting by with only 2 on my Nurgle team with a 75% win ratio. Orcs with access to Block and Sure Hands can surely live on 2 in played right.
     
  13. Gerard

    Gerard New Member

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    Oh and the thrower is gold for getting some Sure Hands into the team early doors. One because of the increased reliability, and two because of Strip Ball Wardancers!

    I see what your saying about him passing as good as a lineorc with a reroll, but if Orcs need to pass it is usually very late in the half and those rerolls are usually long gone! Plus it's better to keep the reroll for the catch if you still have one.
     
  14. otzenpunk

    otzenpunk New Member

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    @Murkglow:

    But you don't have unlimited rerolls. Picking up the ball, throwing and catching are three dice rolls, all 3+. Better have some skill rerolls at hand, because you probably need the team reroll for the catch. Missing the catch near the LoS, because you used up your reroll for the throw can be very annoying.

    And regarding team value, your rookie thrower has exactly as much as a lineman with sure hands. So you effectively trade one AV vs. pass skill. (And can take one more skill.) I think I can live with a single player on the pitch not having AV9. And as soon as you've got more than eleven players, you can leave him on the bench anyway, when you think you don't need him for the following drive.
     
  15. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    391
    And that's of course my entire point of not liking them, the waste of Team Value. Having them sit on the bench just makes it worse. With Orcs it's not at all hard to play with just 11 (or 12) men precisely because everyone has AV 9 and if I had to have someone on the bench it might as well be a Goblin, 1) because they are cheap and 2) because you can try for a one turn score with them.

    As for team rerolls being used up/not being free, well obviously don't use up all of your rerolls, it's really that simple. Save them for important rolls (such as picking up the ball and key dodges/passes/blocks) and let other failures go. If you can't afford a double skull then either don't throw the block or do it first with an orc who, if he fails and is knocked down, doesn't hurt your position. And after the first few games when you've picked up Sure Hands on a Lineman and Block on everyone else your need to use Team Rerolls drops drastically and you can definatly afford to save them for that end of game pass.

    Sigh, anyway, I didn't mean for this to become that big an issue, but I stand by my "meh" at the Thrower. That doesn't mean you can't use them, just that I do not.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  16. maxcarrion

    maxcarrion Active Member

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    I’m going to suggest something just a little different
    4 Black Orcs
    4 Blitzers
    1 Thrower
    1 Line Orc
    1 Goblin
    3 RR
    980k I think

    First the thrower, I think they are invaluable sure hands is THE quintessential ball carrier skill and he’ll generally be the guy with the ball 90% of the time on my team. Pass is handy too, lets me reroll usually the hardest roll when I do need to make a pass and one of the reasons I like Orc over say Chaos or Lizards is the thrower bringing the essential ball handling skills giving them a feasible throwing option/threat. I generally keep mine in the back field preventing the breakaway on defence or in a cage or pocket on offense so the -1AV is almost never an issue. I would go for accurate but 3rd skill would be the earliest I would take it, Leader is very handy then block to keep you standing if they can’t get wrestle to you and dodge on a double of course. After that then sure I’d get accurate and safe throw

    Second the goblin, I love having a goblin on the pitch, he brings the agility much of the rest of the team lack, he can position himself as a scoring threat, get into hard to reach places for the foul or essential tz/assist, against some teams like Lizards with st2 ball carriers he can even quite effectively break the ball out of the cage. Catch, Diving Tackle and Sidestep are top picks that no other player on your team can take as a normal pick. If you’ve never had a diving tackle, blodge (what doubles are for), sidestep goblin loose in your cage you don’t know what you’re missing. Especially when the cage is surrounded by blitzers and black orcs all bringing guard to the mix so you can’t even get a 2D block on a goblin. One of my earliest spends will be the 2nd goblin so I can develop an offensive goblin (catch, side step, maybe sure feet) and a defensive goblin (diving tackle, side step, block if at all possible). Around half the TD’s scored by my orcs were scored by the goblins, when the cage grinds to a halt near their end zone hand it to the gobber, dodge + stunty can break through anything.

    I’d then develop the Lineorc into a kicker/safety (kick, tackle, block, pro, diving tackle on a double) to round out the team with 8 bashers.
     
  17. Smiler6310

    Smiler6310 Member

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    I'd suggest;

    4 Black Orcs
    3 Blitzers
    4 Lineorcs
    4 Rerolls
    Total: 1 million on the nose!

    Orcs can burn through RR's pretty darn quickly so I'd advise getting them early on. RR's cant die and 4 is a nice average and you shouldn't ever need to get more so your free to then spend your hard earned cash first on an Apo then on your players each of whom is cheaper than the 120k of a reroll! :)
     
  18. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    You started with a Troll though so only have two rerolls!

    Lots of Orc coaches don't like the Throwers, I think its great that some players are marginal choices as it adds variety to team builds.
     
  19. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    391
    I listed the none Troll build too...
     
  20. drester

    drester New Member

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    After starting a team with the 4 black orcs 4 blitzers no troll build, i had developed the team quite well and then I had a black orc die on me and without the funds to replace him I just made do with 3 which I actually found to work quite well as it ment I had another player on the team who was greater than move 4. So I never replaced the dead black orc and never regretted it so the next time I start an orc team from scratch I would definatly only take 3 black orcs in a team that would probably look like this:

    4 blitzers
    3 black orcs
    1 thower
    2 lineorcs
    2 goblins
    3 rerolls

    990,000