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Dark Elf Shadowing or Diving Tackle?

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Kal, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. Kal

    Kal New Member

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    Hi all,

    I'm currently working on some different skill setups and was thinking of skilling up a deep man with shadowing (I play Dark Elves), but I'm indecided between it and Diving Tackle (as Tackle is taken first)?

    What do people think of Shadowing? Is is worth having it on a deep man, hoping the opposition fail the 'run away' roll so you keep tailing them and forcing dodge rolls or would it be more reliable just to go with Diving Tackle and hope to trip them up, forcing a team re-roll or a turnover?

    Cheers

    Kal
     
  2. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    It's hard to say both do kinda the same thing (kinda).

    I'd be more in favor of Diving Tackle though just because assuming a fairly equal amount of MV between you and your target Shadowing actually has a fairly good chance of failing.

    Still they both get the job done most likely so either one could work.
     
  3. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    I much prefer Diving Tackle over Shadowing, the latter I would only really consider on MV7 or higher. I still don't think it is that great on MV7, obviously it is more effective against the slower teams.

    Diving Tackle is of more use against every team though.
     
  4. Gio

    Gio Member

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    Same here. Diving Tackle is more efficient when it comes to pinning your opponent down or tripping them when they try to leave your TZ.
    Even still, I do like Shadowing due to the fact it allows you to move out of turn, sometimes to a better position, and does not hinder your movement during your turn. It would make a nice unusual skill for a specific player, rather than an effective one.
     
  5. Gerard

    Gerard New Member

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    Which type of player are you considering it on? Blitzer, Runner, Linesman, etc? I mean assassins already come with shadowing to start with.

    Diving tackle is by far a better skill for a back field safety as the sort of guys you'll be looking to mark will have a higher MV than most of your players.

    That said I quite like shadowing on MV 7 Blitzers, especially human ones, for getting on his ball carrier in his back field.
     
  6. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    Shadowing is something I'd really only get on MV7+ characters and maybe only MV8+ just because the players you're likely to want to mark with Shadowing are also going to be MV7+. The problem there is that there aren't alot of players with that much movement and some can't really do Shadowing (like skinks, since they would have to spend a double to get it and they can get diving tackle on a regular roll).

    The only players that really come to mind for me are Skaven (namely Gutter Runners) and Wood Elves (like Catchers) and there are so many other skills players like those need...
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
  7. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    Human Catchers, High Elf Catchers, Elf Catchers
     
  8. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    I would normally only consider Shadowing on a player with at least an MA of 8 and even then it can give you mixed results. Diving Tackle is a lot more reliable in general.

    Dark elves are my main race at the moment and I always try to build at least one blitzer with Dodge, Tackle, Side-Step and Diving Tackle. This build is great for either marking catchers sent into your half, or for harassing a ball carrier in a cage after peeling a corner of the cage away.

    I would consider adding Shadowing as a fifth skill to a player like this at level 6 all the same, as Shadowing and DT together make him even more annoying!
     
  9. happygrue

    happygrue New Member

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    I wouldn't think of this skill so much for Dark Elves, since they are going to be fast enough to catch back up or go around anyway. I am interested in it's adding value to teams that really don't like players dodging away easily (who often have a hard time taking Diving Tackle anyway)

    Having not tried it yet, maybe I'm over-estimating it's usefulness, but wouldn't it be great on Slann Blitzers? I certainly intend to take it on at least one of them - after more pressing skill choices like Block or Wrestle.

    I also want to get it on a Kroxigor at some point. What with the Prehensile Tail and the fact that it doesn't put you prone (while allowing you to move around without a chance of being Bone-Headed!) it seem like a great skill for them - though it would be a doubles roll. And since they have move 6 already, they are going to have 58% to follow another move 6 unit and almost 42% to follow a move 7 unit. Throw guard on there and he could be a real headache to get rid of!

    And since it's a general skill, it is easier to put on, say, a Bull Centaur or some other 6-7 move unit that doesn't get agility skills. 3rd choice on a Skaven Linemen or Beastman for example. Beastman with Block, Tackle and Shadowing could be a real player perhaps? Blitz in 1v1 to get a defender out of the way and end up next to the ball carrier.

    It also seems like a great counter to the Break Tackle Skill since you can only break one tackle per turn, and players with Break Tackle might only have 5 moves anyway.

    Finally,
     
  10. Gio

    Gio Member

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    Tackle seems better for Slann Blitzers imo, since they already have Diving Tackle (definetly after Block or Wrestle... the later combos great with Jump Up btw).
    You have arisen my curiosity, a Kroxigor with Shadowing does sound scary (although Coach wrote a very good article about Kroxigor with Diving tackle). Sauri with Shadowing (after Block and perhaps Guard) instead of Breack Tackle begins to sound interesting as well, maybe some of them can get Break Tackle to get where they are needed while others get Shadowing to hold on to their prey.
    Diving Tackle is still more reliable... then again, Nuffle often smiles upon the risk takers...
    Eager to try it out with Lizzies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2010
  11. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    Shadowing is not worth selecting on MV6 players in my opinion. There are so many other better skills that a player could usually take, especially Saurus which are slow to skill up.

    Block, Break Tackle, Mighty Blow, Guard, Tackle, Grab, Juggernaut, Frenzy, Stand Firm, Wrestle, Strip Ball. That is 11 skills right there and the most they can get is 6. Add in doubles and stat increase as well, there is no room for Shadowing imo.
     
  12. Murkglow

    Murkglow Member

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    Plus a Krox would need a double just to pick Shadowing and Big Guys are always starved for doubles anyway.
     
  13. happygrue

    happygrue New Member

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    I completely agree about wrestle being a good option for Slann Blitzers.

    Tackle and Diving Tackle surely are better than shadowing in some respects. The thing that I really like about Shadowing is that you can use it when the other players take an action that moves them away for any reason - this means that if they blitz someone else and follow up the blitz to get away from your player you still have a chance to follow them and THEN use the diving tackle if they try to dodge after that. Particularly useful if it's a high strength player that might be able to blitz away with relative ease, even when surrounded by two or three other players, but will have trouble if forced to make a dodge after that. Combine that with the fact that you could have this guy leap in next to a ball carrier and there is much fun to be had! :D
     
  14. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    Still very marginal use a lot of the time and with MV6 the chances of it working aren't great. Against players that it probably would, they would be more likely to just not try and dodge away anyway.