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Skaven Skaven team Development

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Rav3n73, Mar 26, 2010.

  1. Rav3n73

    Rav3n73 Member

    Messages:
    282
    Location:
    Stoke on Trent
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    Hi All,

    I've started a Skaven team and after their first game I have the following line up.

    Gutter Runners x4
    Thrower
    Storm Vermin x2 (One with Guard)
    Line Rats x4 (One will miss next match)
    Apothacary

    I have 60,000 GP in the treasury and wondered whether I should wait until after the next game and buy a thrower or buy a line rat before the next match?

    Also what is the ideal number of Skaven to have on your roster, I don't want to give to much TV away if possible.

    Anyone know whats the best line up to use when I kick to the other team?

    Thanks

    Lee
     
  2. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    With a Thrower already and 4 AG4 players you don't need the extra Thrower for quite a while. Your priority is to have a bench deep enough so that you can start each drive with as close to 11 players as possible. So get the Linerat, you need some reserves to avoid having to put your better players on the Line of Scrimmage.

    As for the ideal number, that will depend a lot on your opponents and if you have a Rat Ogre on the team or not. There is no real correct answer to that question.

    Set up wise I would go with something like one of these:

    [play-creator]5097[/play-creator]

    [play-creator]5098[/play-creator]

    [play-creator]5100[/play-creator]


    Put your Gutter Runners out wide so they can take advantage of space to get at their ball carrier before they end up in a cage or somewhere safe. Linerats on the LOS to take the hits, Blitzers just inside the wide zone and your Thrower in the somewhat safety behind them.

    Try the different ones out and see which works best for you, watch out for Frenzy on the opposing side when setting up though you don't want to give them a free and easy crowd push.
     
  3. Rav3n73

    Rav3n73 Member

    Messages:
    282
    Location:
    Stoke on Trent
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    I'm not that interested in getting a rat ogre as I think it'll detract from the fluid quick movement of my team.

    My cousin has just brought an Underworld Team and is looking for a challenge match, which I'm thinking of taking up with my Skaven.

    The way I see it, I'll have the speed, strength, and Agility advantage. I know he'll be using a Troll (He loves big guys), but I'm hoping I'll be able to out run the Troll and it will also tie up one of his players acting as a security against really stupid.
     
  4. Ork from Mork

    Ork from Mork New Member

    Messages:
    12
    I experimented with two throwers for a while and it really didn't work very well. One is ok, but you don't need two. Another linerat would be better, I think. I ended up letting my second thrower die one game even though I still had my apothecary just to get rid of it.

    I ran with 14 skaven for a really long time, but I almost always had trouble fielding players, so I went up to 15 and it made a world of difference. Just that one extra guy has allowed me to usually field 10-11 rats throughout the game. I've considered going up to a full 16, but my TV is pretty high as it is, so I decided to just stay at 15.

    I used to use the ziggaraut setup when kicking off, but it leaves your wide gutter runners vulnerable to a blitz so I switched to the standard 3-4-4 setup and it's worked out better for me.
     
  5. Marlow

    Marlow Member

    Messages:
    60
    This is being discussed on TFF. The math says you want 3 reserves for an AV 7 team assuming you are taking two knock down's each turn.

    20k for two skills seems a bargain to me. I would always take the second thrower just for Sure hands. He offers better progression options than a Line-rat but otherwise you can just play him as if he was a Line-rat.
     
  6. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    I use two Throwers but I don't get the second one straight away before I have sufficient fodder for the other team to hit first.

    I also don't mind putting the Gutter Runners in an easy position for them to get blitzed straight away. They are going to take lots of hits anyway and I can skill them up quicker than a Linerat. They can also dodge away next turn much easier than a Linerat can. Mine also get Side Step early so it can stop the other team getting through easily and or put your Gutter Runners a square nearer their ball carrier.
     
  7. Ancre

    Ancre Member

    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Paris
    Quick and probably stupid question, but how much rerolls do you have ? Rerolls are important too, and although I don't know how much are needed for skaven, I have found that 3 rerolls is a minimum, 4 is ok to comfortable, and 5 is comfortable to too much.
     
  8. Ork from Mork

    Ork from Mork New Member

    Messages:
    12
    That was my thinking when I bought the second one. I figured for 20k, I got two good skills on him, plus I could get leader for another reroll so it seemed like it was worth it, but what would happen is that my linerats would inevitably get knocked out or injured and I'd run out of linerats for the line, so I'd have to put a thrower up there, which I didn't want to do. Replacing that second thrower with a linerat has allowed me to keep linerats on the line.

    Another thing is that my second thrower got MVP once and I realized that if he had been a linerat, it would be a linerat 1 point away from wrestle and a linerat with wrestle is much more helpful to me than a second thrower since I go through them like crazy. I've managed to get 3 linerats with wrestle now for the line (well, 4 really since my kicking linerat also has wrestle, but I don't ever put him on the line unless I absolutely have to).

    As for leader, when I got it on that second thrower, he was almost always getting KO'ed, injured, or MNG'ed, so the reroll rarely helped me.
     
  9. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    I'm a big fan of rerolls so I'd like 5, though I'd happily cut one if I thought I had enough skills to cope without it and wanted to lower the team value. You can play Skaven very well with just 4 rerolls.
     
  10. Marlow

    Marlow Member

    Messages:
    60
    That is where we differer. I would happily throw him on the line. You could also use him as the Kicker freeing up a line-rat.
     
  11. kiih

    kiih New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Coach,

    concerning your defensive set-ups (especially the Ziggurat and the Inverted Ziggurat, which I prefer), where would you place your Gutter Runners? Even if you have a deeper bench, you'd still use all 4 on defense, right?

    /THREAD DRIFT I'm hoping this is not considered thread-hijacking, but I'd be interested to see some offensive setups as well. I usually stack the LoS a bit to one side, one GR in the heavy side wide zone one square back and one linerat in the light side WZ one square back. The thrower (who is in the middle of my half) or a GR from just behind the LoS handles the pickup. I try to hit the heavy side of the LoS hard and blitz a player on that side as well, which will create a hole for my GRs and remaining linos to swarm through. Hand-off to a GR on the LoS, form a cage or something close to a cage deep in the opponent's half. 2nd turn - score with either the GR with the ball or hand it off to another GR in the cage and score with him.

    That's pretty much my offense, pretty much every time. It works quite well, but I'd still be interested to know of any others (and whether this is not the optimal way for Skaven to score). Also, it almost always ends up being a 2-turn TD, which isn't always desired.

    Thanks!
     
  12. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    I put my Gutter Runners all 4 in the Wide Zones.

    For offence it depends a lot on how the opponents are set up.

    If you find you are always scoring in two turns you can just keep your Thrower deep with the ball out of reach of their players for a turn. Then they have to come forward to threaten you or let you use up time.