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Tactics Skill allocation advice III

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Nikolai II, Jun 28, 2014.

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  1. NieA7

    NieA7 Well-Known Member

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    There's an argument that human catchers are bad enough that if they've not rolled something by lvl 4 they should be fired. If you want to hang on to him then fend is a good option, you could also consider sure hands (to nullify strip ball and help recover it if the pass scatters), sure feet (a better option for 1TTD than sprint IMO, which can follow sure feet), jump up or, if you want a high risk/reward option, leap - it's only a 50/50 shot but just having it can make people change their defence, and you have got 4 re-rolls.

    If you want to start fielding him on defence than I'd go for diving tackle, with tackle to follow. On balance I think I'd leave him as a dedicated scorer though.
     
  2. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Diving Tackle is nice ..
     
  3. Ken

    Ken Kenny the Mechanic

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    juggernaut also let's you push around his Stand Firm pieces, nice since your killer has frenzy
     
  4. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    So after a blood match in which Dark tooth got a kill turn 1 and held the ball for a breif time, he was awarded MvP.

    This got him to 9 spp and leaves me with this level up choice...

    [​IMG]

    The only real choice I can think of is Pro as Block would imply I will let him be hit a lot, it won't help take down most enemies later on as block is common place although of course with Jugger does allow for Blocking down Wrestle players.

    The other choice would be tackle for long term, but honestly Pro just feels better on a loner player who is as active as him.

    Oh and this is Big crunch team Twisted metal, rest of the team is mostly rookies and a few block pit fighters.

    Im off to sleep so any input on what I should do before I check back would be nice. However I feel it will be hard to make me not take Pro.
     
  5. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    I would take Block every time. I have a Bloodthirster in FOL with Blodge and it is fun! ;)

    Block is just all-round better than Pro. It gives you the choice of taking the :bothdown: instead of the :pushback: when he blitzes and it provides a measure of protection too when your opponent targets him for removal.

    Also don't forget that you will not always be blitzing with him. So if he is in contact Block becomes much more important when he hits the opponent, as juggs is useless then.
     
  6. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    Yeah its block or pro, I can see the argument for both but would go block myself, helps out with those 2ds against.
     
  7. Ken

    Ken Kenny the Mechanic

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    block, no question about it
     
  8. NieA7

    NieA7 Well-Known Member

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    Block. If I was facing a thing like that I'd be looking to knock it over and stamp on it as soon as possible, pro won't help much with that.
     
  9. notafunhater

    notafunhater Well-Known Member

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    Opponents will be more than happy to take 2d against blocks on him hoping to get him on the ground if he doesn't have block. I'd take Block in a heartbeat. It makes him so much more reliable.
     
  10. Gyasi

    Gyasi Member

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    I would take pro. I think a BT is one of the only big guy for whom block isn't an automatic first choice.
    It really depends how you use it. If you use it mostly as a roadblock then take block ( but then why do you have a BT). If you're constantly blitzing with it I'd go for pro. Frenzy makes taking a push an acceptable option and it'll buy you 3 or 4 rerolls per match, but he'll be a bit more vulnerable.

    I'm also known for my dubious choices.
     
  11. Barmution

    Barmution Well-Known Member

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    Block. Even if you're blitzing with him 9/10 turns I'd take Block. The BT is so essential for a Khorne team that fields him that you need him on his feet or at least to be able to safely block a sacrificial player sent to tie him up (8/9 is not safe, especially w Frenzy).
     
  12. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    The problem I have with Block is it mostly just a defensive pick (Due to the fact later on most players will have block) , if people want to risk 2 dice blocks against him with their block player then let em, I generally don't leave him alone either and it has a fair risk of burning a reroll of theirs and even still getting their own player knocked down instead.

    If they really want to take him down once he has block they could still 2 dice against with a wrestle player.

    Plus with jugger the blitzes are no safer with block, so its only the standing blocks which getting 2 assists to make sure its 3 dice isn't that hard to do generally.

    Both block and Pro seem like the best choices, but out of all the big guys the bloodthirster is the one who needs block the least. Even with everyone saying block I am more tempted by Pro and then on a second doubles (If I was that lucky) maybe even taking tackle.

    With all my players like to make standard choices of block as the first skill giving him Pro instead would also feel like a nice change of pace from the rest of my team.

    I still have plenty of time to decide before my next match, so I will think it over for longer. Feel free to add arguments for either side if you want to persuade me.
     
  13. mrpier

    mrpier Member

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    I like pro on wild animal big guys too, I've had it on both a mino and a rat ogre. If he is your dedicated bltizer then I think it's the marginally better choice.
     
  14. Moncap

    Moncap Member

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    Block also allows him to make normal blocks much more safely. Yes, you could comit a blitz to it to make it safer, but Khorne have so many other great blitzers in the team, with horns and juggernaught, that often get wasted is the coach focusses too much on the Thirster.

    It's not just 2 dice blocks against him you need to worry about, other teams will have str 4/5 and guard. And he will be a massive target.
     
  15. Gyasi

    Gyasi Member

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    Let's put it this way. You'll never regret taking Block.

    Pro is arguably an equivalent choice and I personally like it better because of the versatility, but every single time someone will put him down or you'll miss a knockdown because you have to use the push somebody will tell you that you should've taken block.

    I would take pro

    It's not a choice done in a void, it's actually closer to 1/18 with pro instead of block, and you have 11/12 chance of actually making it instead of 5/6
     
  16. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    I just don't think it's even close between Block and Pro. I've already given the main reasons above as to why I think Block is so much better, but I'll add some more if you are still on the fence Street!

    In a nutshell, the higher in tv that Khorne get, the less that they want to rely on their Thirster to be their main blitzing weapon. He is unreliable, plain and simple, even with Pro. Khorne can easily build their Heralds or Letters into some of the best blitzing pieces in the game. If you give Pro to the Thirster, you are throwing even more emphasis on him as a blitzer, while missing out on all of the benefits of Block.

    It's not about protecting him against 2d uphill blocks. The higher in tv you go, the more high Str, Guard you will meet. It's not hard at all for a lot of teams to get a 2d block on a Str 5 piece. Those hits on your Thirster will also generally come from pieces that have Block (mb, po, claw, etc), so your Thirster not having it makes it much easier to put him on the floor and the floor is the last place you want a Str 5 Wild Animal to be! The Thirster will usually be in contact too, so it's not a piece you can hide behind your other players very often.

    You have a team with up to 7 Juggs / Horns pieces and you don't want to be relying on the rng letting you make a blitz most of the time. If he has Block then he can blitz into position early and then much more reliably block players left standing next to him, while your other positionals do the important blitzing from then on.
     
  17. Barmution

    Barmution Well-Known Member

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    If you insist on getting technical, the odds of failing a 2d with Pro is 5/81 and the odds of making it in the first place (not WA'ing) 195/216 ;)

    Anyway, Danton's arguments pretty much sum up my thoughts on the matter.
     
  18. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    Well I have not finalised the decision in game but I guess I will fold and take Block. Too many coaches I know, know what they are talking about. (If that makes sense)

    Plus most of them are not currently playing in BC, it is not like they have a motivation to try and trick me into taking the lesser option.

    I do still think its a closer choice between the 2 skills than you may be making out, as even later on in the teams development, although you may not want to rely on blitzing with your BT, you still need to in some instances.

    If he gets a second doubles however, I will take Pro over taking something like dodge.

    Hopefully just a normal skill next tho for that lovely Mighty blow he needs.
     
  19. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    So um yea...

    [​IMG]

    What I am instead going to do, is make a note of everytime Pro has been useful and every time Block would have been useful (As it is easier to know when block would have helped unlike Pro)

    Then I can most likely prove that block would have been the correct choice.
     
  20. notafunhater

    notafunhater Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say Pro is a bad choice, I just think Block would be better overall. But yes, definitely report back on your findings. I'm curious to see how it goes.
     
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