1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tactics Skill allocation advice IV

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Nikolai II, Apr 11, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SovereignStrike

    SovereignStrike Member

    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    Qu├ębec City
    Cyanide Username:
    SovereignStrike
    Country Flag:
    Agree on all points.

    Dodge on both for sure.

    For the Ogre, he is clearly a superstar and no ordinary stupid brutish Ogre. Piling on would be a huge waste. He would become an awesome ball carrier and blitzer with break tackle.
     
  2. Ameroa

    Ameroa New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Country Flag:
    I'm playing blood bowl 2 and have a bretonnian question if anyone are familiar with that team :D

    I'm in a situation where pretty much all my blitzers have been injured / not gotten any levels, except one guy who got + agi on his first and now has leveled up again! The question is, how do I build him? Do I just put sure hands on him and make him my dedicated ball handler, or do I try stuff like pass, nerves of steel or something similiar... I'm quite perplexed :D The rest of the team is fairly underdeveloped, so I'm afraid he might become the only player that does anything if I give him surehands. Also, my second blitzer who made it to lvl 2 got the opportunity to get + agi aswell, but I'm debating if I need two. Am I crazy? Do I have the perfect Thrower / Catcher thing going, and I'm making a huge mistake if I don't take advantage of that? :D (The second blitzer has -1 mov though)

    Thanks! :D
     
  3. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,258
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada (UTC -4)
    Steam Username:
    travelscrabble
    Cyanide Username:
    travelscrabble
    Country Flag:
    Your blitzers are always going to be your best offensive option - your linemen are useless except as fodder or foulers and the Yeomen are needed for their strength access to hold the line. So yeah I'd take sure hands and the other agi increase and just embrace that the blitzer will be your main men (hand off to a yeoman or one of the other blitzers if you can ever do so safely before scoring though). Having two does give you a passing option too which is a good thing.
     
  4. omne51

    omne51 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Country Flag:
    Thanks for the help!

    Have a Minotaur on a Chaos team that rolled doubles for his first skill... Block or Pro? If it helps, I envision him as more of a killer than a roadblock. Leaning towards Pro, and getting Juggernaught on a normal roll (after Claw) to mitigate turnovers on the "both down" result. Pro would help him avoid Wild Animals, and also help with the two Frenzy blocks he gets. With Pro + Juggernaught, not having Block isn't quite as big of a deal. Thoughts?

    Also have a Chaos Warrior who rolled +AG for his first skill, but I am strongly considering bypassing and just selecting Block. Thoughts?
     
  5. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,448
    Location:
    Stockport
    Cyanide Username:
    cjblackburn
    Country Flag:
    Depends on how you use him. If you are happy to Blitz with him every turn then I could see pro. However if you want to leave him in contact so he gets to block then take Block. I would take Block and leave him in contact as even with pro it is just over a 1 in 9 chance of Wild animal kicking in. Block means he is a road block if he fails WA and a Killer if he doesn't.

    As for an AG boost if you have enough block on your team then you could take it although MV 5 can limit his usefulness. If you want to play with a slow ball carrier then a ST4 ball carrier is great.
     
  6. omne51

    omne51 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Country Flag:
    On the wolf, since he is av9, what about dauntless, tackle, and pro to maximize his destructiveness?
     
  7. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,448
    Location:
    Stockport
    Cyanide Username:
    cjblackburn
    Country Flag:
    You could do it depends on how the rest of your team looks. If you have another killer then Dodge allows your wolf to survive and reposition. If you can protect him with other players then you can turn him into a pure killer. Without dodge your opponents will get him down so early blodge and hopefully MB are the way most wolves go.
     
  8. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

    Messages:
    2,939
    Country Flag:
    2 doubles on my gutter runners and I am not sure whether to take them or not.
    I also have a wrestle dauntless gutter and 2 decent killer vermin.

    One has block , guard and 2 heads so I am considering sidestep

    The other has +AG , 2 heads and wrestle. Horns would be useful but so is Strip Ball. Big Hand is also an option as he can dodge into 3 TZ's with a reasonable chance of success.
     
  9. Jav

    Jav Active Member

    Messages:
    582
    Steam Username:
    Javelin
    Cyanide Username:
    javelin
    Country Flag:
    I've made a few +AG linerats. They can certainly be useful, but as TravelScrabble said you already have 4 gutters and two stormvermin to try to protect, and you need to leave the SV vulnerable much of the time. If you play with a thrower you also have him to protect.

    If you don't have a thrower yet it might be reasonable to use the +AG linerat to pick up the ball and facilitate the offense. But you're going to end up using him to screen more often than you like, and kick is so important to the rats. I think I would likely take kick, but you can make the +AG linerat work if you want to play around with him. Just try to score with him quick so he can get a protection skill!
     
  10. Ravers

    Ravers Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,109
    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Cyanide Username:
    Ravers
    Country Flag:

    The +AG, 2 heads / wrestle gutter is a great player already. Strip ball would be too tempting for me to blitz into cages with him, likely to see him killed so I would pass on that. Horns is fine, would probably go with Big Hand though. Ability to dodge in to pick up a loose ball, then dodge out and then use a hand off or pass is great. Would give strip ball to the wrestle/dauntless gutter when/if he levels. Block/guard/2Heads gutter I would agree sidestep. Nice rolling by the way:).
     
  11. Arthur Wynne

    Arthur Wynne Member

    Messages:
    306
    Country Flag:
    I would take the +AG, even though it might not be the most efficient choice, because being able to dodge away on a 2+ really helps a linerat's survival prospects. It actually makes him a better screener and defender, just try not to man-mark with him. Plus the more AG 4 Skaven have, the more easily they can move the ball and score out of nowhere.
     
  12. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,258
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada (UTC -4)
    Steam Username:
    travelscrabble
    Cyanide Username:
    travelscrabble
    Country Flag:
    Tys I'd take horns - its more reliable than dauntless which is hugely important and make hims that much better at his primary job whereas stripball loses utility. Big hands is a really good call as well though.
     
  13. Nazdakka

    Nazdakka New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Country Flag:
    Chaos Minotaur rolls a fourth double in four rolls.

    The first three were Block, Pro, Dodge (with the intention of getting Break Tackle). Is this the point where I start filling in the regular strength skills like Break Tackle and Guard or is it worth waiting a little longer and taking another doubles skill to make an even stranger player (Tackle/Strip Ball for blitzing? Side Step for the lulz?)

    The rest of the team is a TV 2220 Chaos team with pretty much everyone else with 2-4 skills, including two +ST Beastmen (one specced as a ball carrier before he got +ST, one is a killer with MB).
     
  14. Arthur Wynne

    Arthur Wynne Member

    Messages:
    306
    Country Flag:
    Do you take +AG as the first skill on a Dark Elf lineman on a very developed (TV ~2000) team? I am sceptical because of my 5 linemen, one has kick and one has guard which leaves only 3 for the defensive LoS, which would include this guy. I could buy a 13th player and reserve AG-man for offensive drives though -he could develop usefully. But I'm not sure it's worth it to not just take Wrestle instead.
     
  15. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

    Messages:
    2,939
    Country Flag:
    It depends if you have any AG5 on the team.
    If you don't then I would take the AG.
    He will be great if he lives long enough.
    However if you already have someone to do all the AG5 BS then don't bother.
     
  16. Borke

    Borke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,333
    Location:
    Hamburg
    Cyanide Username:
    Borke
    Country Flag:
    I'd like to re-open the question of the Block/Pro Ogre from before (I'm only now catching up, sorry :oops:). It might be a moot point now, as the skill was most likely already taken, but I find the question fascinating. So I've been thinking along the following lines.

    If I imagine the ideal Ogre BC, with two doubles, I'm thinking Block/SH. From all the Ogre games I've watched (or played), I'm pretty sure all of them involved lone Ogres running off with the ball, maybe supported by one more Ogre, or a couple of Snotlings. Definitely a great scenario for a Wrestle/Strip Ball player, who is going to take that uphill block any day of the week. So Sure Hands, besides granting a great RR for picking up the ball (as opposed to Pro, which sucks for trying to pick up the ball), is also a very nice defensive skill for an Ogre BC. I don't think Pro provides as much benefit, to a ball carrier particularly.

    Pro is best in the following two situations:

    1) If you use it often to improve non-critical die rolls.
    2) If you use it on crucial moves which require many die rolls to succeed.

    I don't believe that an Ogre ball carrier falls into the second category very often. Most of the time, he just moves, meaning one die roll. If that fails, and it's crucial that the Ogre BC moves this turn, you use a team RR, you would never use Pro. Even if it's a dodge + move (assuming Break Tackle), you would never use Pro first if that action is crucial, which means that with team RR, Pro only bumps your chances from 92.5% to 93.5%. Of course Pro becomes much better once the team RR is gone (for the turn), but I would argue that these crucial moves, especially with the Ogre BC, usually happen early enough in the turn that you have your team RR still available.

    The designated blitzer is a slightly different question. If you are not currently hunting the ball, but rather just trying to pick off opponents, then the blitz usually happens late in a turn, which means that the team RR might already be gone that turn. Therefore Pro increases in value for a designated blitzer, you won't mind using Pro to reroll Bonehead (or to reroll Push/Push results, for that matter), if these are non-critical blitzes. I therefore thing that kill skills (i.e. Piling On) do combo well with Pro.

    However, there is a build I like even more: Block/Pro -> Guard/Stand Firm. It might not look exciting, but hear me out. Block/Guard/Stand Firm are the classical "meat shield" skills, players who stand in contact with opponents. You could opt to never take an action with such a player (as is the advice for many Big Guys on other teams), but I don't think Ogres have that luxury, and besides, Block is really screaming to be used. So I think most Ogre coaches would block with a Block Ogre every single turn, even with a Block/Guard/Stand Firm Ogre, as long as there is an opposing player in contact. But these would usually be non-critical blocks: You want to hurt your opponent if possible, but if you roll Bonehead or Push/Push, you're not going to use the team RR. So, this type of player, the "always in contact" "meat shield" build, will make plenty of use of Pro, if only when trying to relocate (again, non-critical, but nice if it succeeds).

    In conclusion, I think that Pro is equally useful on the "designated blitzer" and on the "meat shield", and the reason I like it better on the "meat shield" is that often opportunity dictates who you blitz with, and you might not get very much mileage out of your "designated blitzer" at times.
     
  17. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,448
    Location:
    Stockport
    Cyanide Username:
    cjblackburn
    Country Flag:
    I think the original post was what to do with an Ogre who already had Block and Pro.

    I took tackle then block on an Ogre team Ogre and loved it. I already had 2 block Ogres. The main problem I had playing Ogres was Blodgers not ball handling. I did not concentrate on hurting players but I found you need to take some off the pitch to keep the numbers even. Mass Blodge just completly messed that up.

    There is a place for Block SH. However part of the joy of Ogres is they are not cookie cutter and each Ogre needs to fill the gaps in your team.
     
  18. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    12,230
    Steam Username:
    Dreamy
    Cyanide Username:
    Dreamy
    Country Flag:
    Sidestep has it's advantages, since you don't want to mark with a mino, but will appreciate a good setup for a surf.

    Leap is for the Lulz.

    Tackle is to make it less likely he gets marked up by an elf wrodger, amazon linewoman or some stunty, and makes him harder to dodge away from.
     
  19. notafunhater

    notafunhater Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,218
    Location:
    Utah, USA
    Cyanide Username:
    notafunhater
    Country Flag:
    Why not Claw? or Horns?

    but seriously, a blodgestep Mino would be the most annoying piece pretty much ever.
     
  20. sbr32

    sbr32 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,061
    Location:
    US West Coast (GMT-8)
    Cyanide Username:
    sbr32
    Country Flag:
    Wight on a basically rookie undead team got an 11 on his first skill roll (why oh why didn't I roll first for the Ghoul who also leveled :confused:).

    I took the +AG but I am now not sure where to go with him. Guard is still the next normal skill (I assume I have to go Dodge on a double?), but then what?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.