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Tactics Skill Allocation Advice VI

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Nikolai II, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    This that league with all human teams that drafted? If so I would take break tackle so that his guard isn't pinned down by a linemen easily, can't imagine needing standfirm against other human teams that much.

    If it isn't that league and possible final opponent isn't humans, may need to know what you expect to be up against for an idea of what to recommend.
     
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  2. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    Break tackle has around a 1 in 3 chance of failure ( Bone head and dodge on 2+ ). Stand Firm however means he can move into contact with 2 players and the can't easily move him away.
    So IMO Stand Firm is the better choice but if you think you are going to lose a 1 off game then gambling on a break tackle blitz working to turn things around is worth considering.
     
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  3. sbr32

    sbr32 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it is the human league.

    I ended up taking break tackle even though I know it wasn't the optimal choice.

    Thanks to you and @tys123 for the help.
     
  4. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

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    Underworld thrower with block and two heads rolls 5,5.

    I think dodge is best as it synergises with two heads and good for a ball carrier? Obviously MA would be nice too.

    Anyone think anything else?
     
  5. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    Dodge seems good. The other option is MB if your other thrower is the main ballcarrier.
     
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  6. Borke

    Borke Well-Known Member

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    I'm absolutely with Tys here: Both Dodge and MB are viable choices. It depends a bit on your play style, too. If you prefer dodging around and pulling off Underworld BS, Dodge is better. But if you want to make sure you always have someone to hit back, MB could be better.
     
  7. DireSickFish

    DireSickFish Active Member

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    I'd be tempted by the +MV, as bonus movement on the ball carrier makes offense a lot easier. At the end of the day though in Blodge we trust. So I'd go Dodge.
     
  8. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

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    I don’t really think mb as I have 2 killers and will claw the block troll up when he levels.

    As an offensive pick I’d rather take guard so I can actually make 2d blocks :D
     
  9. Regor

    Regor Well-Known Member

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    Bufas a friendly Pestigor that didn't follow any killer path, level up and i need your help.
    So far Bufas have: Block; 1+MV; SureHands;Extra Arms
    and now rolled a double.
    Options: Sprint; Jumpup;SideStep;Leader; tackle

    U guys can see my team:

    http://www.bb2leaguemanager.com/Leaderboard/team_detail.php?team_id=994355&community_id=1

    I will play against Chaos,Orcs and Undead. Chaos dont have any dodge, and Orcs only have 1, Undead have some, but i have so far 3 tackles, and probably other pestigor will have tackle.

    What u guys think?
     
  10. DireSickFish

    DireSickFish Active Member

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    Dodge 100%. He's the ball carrier, you want him as hard to bring down as possible. Can go two heads next or foul appearance.
     
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  11. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

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    I’d agree with @DireSickFish .

    Why don’t you want dodge?
     
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  12. Regor

    Regor Well-Known Member

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    Thks to both of u!
    Probably u are right, and dodge are the best option, especial because i already have other 2 dodge pestigors, and they synergy good.

    My thought was to use the extra move/ to sidestep or sprint to make OTTD or do that desperate run for a TD.

    But dodge is good to, my next opo only have 1 tackler player, so dodge can help to protect Bufas!
     
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  13. Larkstar

    Larkstar Active Member

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    Perhaps slightly derailing the thread here - but I'm curious why so many people think Dodge is the "go-to" choice for Runners who don't have normal access to Agility Skills? Ideally (and I fully understand "ideally" is a magical blood bowl state that doesn't always happen), but ideally you never want your ball carrier to get hit. Like, never ever ever. Sure, it's going to happen. But is it going to happen THAT much to justify the use of a skill that can still negated by Tackle? And even if your ball carrier is only based, do you really want to put your trust in a Dodge with reroll (1 in 9 failure for AG 3 players) that again can be countered by Tackle?

    Dodge gets better the more you have it, so in Regor's case I think it's a legitimate skill choice. But I am very much less sold on it being all that useful to a ball carrier. For Doubles, I have had a lot of success with just taking Guard. I think it provides much more mileage and suddenly makes it easier to block him free when they are inevitably based, which seems to happen more often than a direct hit to the ball carrier.

    In Regor's case I would think about skipping it for something to help out on Defense, such as Tackle, since that +MV makes him a great safety.
     
  14. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about you but that ideal of never letting my ball carrier get hit is the exception not the rule, though nurgle I guess get to experience that more.
     
  15. Veggente85

    Veggente85 Well-Known Member

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    Naa, cage diving is a rare occurence. Don't take dodge! Even block is bloat! :D
     
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  16. DireSickFish

    DireSickFish Active Member

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    You will do everything in your power to avoid having the ball get hit. And he will do everything in his power to hit the ball. If you fail something then your ball carrier could easily be exposed on your drive and get hit. Or the opponent could take a gamble that pays off and your ball carrier gets hit. This is exacerbated if your team is unable to free players up. As and elf coach I can fairly reliably dodge my whole team out. But most teams that need dodge on a double tend to get stuck in. And a good coach will take advantage of that and base you at the WORST possible time. So you might not even have the players to cage up and protect the ball.

    Tackle, while a very useful skill that teams take when they can, can actually be very difficult for some teams to get. There are a lot of other skills that take priority. And even if you DO have tackle, it's usually on a small number of players. You can account for that by targeting, hitting, fouling, basing them. So there is counterplay to Tackle most of the time.

    Offense is also harder than defense. They have all 11 players available while you have to lose at a minimum 1 to carry the ball. You don't want a based cage, so really you want 5 players free every turn. That's a big ask. And if you're a slower team(like Nurgle) you have a much harder time taking advantage when the defender screws up and leaves you an easy hole to get through. As you won't make near as much ground as a faster team.

    And, at the end of the day, sometimes you just need to potato the ball down the field. Eat 1 blitz and hope you can get the TD, because that's literally your only option to score.
     
  17. Jav

    Jav Active Member

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    You need protection against leap and BT at a minimum. But more often than that dodge is going to be used because you didn't get the casualties you hoped for on your offensive drive. Now there's a few too many elves blocking your path and its turn 8. You need to block a guy out of the way, make a dodge, and a GFI to score. Having that dodge skill can really affect the play.
     
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  18. Larkstar

    Larkstar Active Member

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    I get it. In fact I said as much in my post. Those types of situations WILL happen. But do they happen enough to justify the skill choice? And I really want to stress that point. Those situations you stated are not common. They certainly don't happen every game. They may not happen every 5th game. Whereas other skills WILL be used every game. Make fun, but I'd bet my car Kick Off Return would be used more often in that player's lifetime than Dodge. No doubt, when Dodge is needed you'll be glad you have it. But what of all the other skills you are NOT taking that can be more useful more often? That's the opportunity cost of Dodge. I simply don't think it's always worth it.
     
  19. DireSickFish

    DireSickFish Active Member

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    These are all really common occurrences. And usually once things fall apart Dodge isn't needed "once a game". It's usually needed 2 or 3 turns in a row because they keep crashing your cage and basing you. Or your offense fell apart and he keeps making his 3+ dodges and GFIs to hit you.

    Last season I averaged 2.1 sacks a game. Not hits on the ball carrier, Sacks. And a lot of that work was done by my leaping stripsacker who doesn't have tackle. If the ball carrier has SH+dodge then I don't even makes the attempt because the ball aint coming out. If he doesn't have dodge I'm much more likely to take a shot late in the half. Sure, my sacks might be above the curve because my team is well developed and I'm a good coach. But I don't plan my team development around playing bad coaches with underdeveloped players.
     
  20. Larkstar

    Larkstar Active Member

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    I think we have vastly different definitions of the word "common". :cool: They may be common for you because you are the one causing those situations. But that Nurgle, Dwarf, Orc, etc team may play Wood Elves 1 time in 20 matches (or longer!). Then again they may play them 3 times in 2 seasons. Perhaps they pull Kislev, or other elves who have developed a Leaper. Certainly possible. But "common"? I'm just not seeing what you are seeing. Which is 100% fine, by the way. I think coaches need to examine what THEY are seeing. If your carrier repeatedly sees a barrage of sack attempts where Dodge would have saved their bacon, go for it. If you are not, then you are taking a skill that will get very little use.