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Tactics Small league structure, a complicated puzzle.

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Silfuin, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. Silfuin

    Silfuin Well-Known Member

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    Hello all.
    As some of you know I am running a small league of RL friends in BB2.

    First season just ended with a single division of 10 teams, producing some well developed teams and some not-so-developed teams.
    Further to that a coach decided to reroll.
    That would have lead for the soon to come season 2 to some differences in TV which, although not too big, start to be problematic, especially if the lower tv teams are managed by the less experienced players.
    Most teams are around 1400k, with some up to 1600k, therefore the new teams and the couple of undeveloped teams would have to fight against teams 400k to 600k higher.

    I started to think if and how to manage this, maybe with some form of "redrafting" or similar limitation to the teams, or if on the opposite to allow new teams higher entry value.

    As of now some players have added, which increased our numbers to 12, therefore too high for a single division, and I opted for 2 divisions of 6 teams.
    This solved the problem of the TV difference as all the higher tv teams promoted to Div 1 while the lower tv teams stayed in Div 2.
    With small divisions, and so fewer matches, the randomness of Nuffle influence is higher, but that seemed the smaller evil.

    Now a couple more players are willing to enter season 2.
    That would lead to have Division 2 with 8 players and Div 1 with just 6.
    This would result in Div 1 playing 2 less matches.
    This is not necessarily bad as lower tv teams would have more games to level the difference with the higher teams, but means 2 more weeks of waiting between a season and the other.

    In the meantime that these 2 new players (actually old players, but like most of our group stopped playing more than 20 years ago) will confirm their intentions I am toying with the idea of having semifinal and final between the first 4 teams in division 1.
    I don't really like the idea of knockout tournament, as I find that a championship of BB is better assessed over a number of games, where eventual lucky/unlucky games don't have such weight as in direct elimination.
    What do you think?

    And what would you do for season 3 and following, where we will surely have some problem of tv differences?

    Last but not least, with 2 divisions of 6 teams each I was ruling that the first/last 2 teams in their division would promote/relegate.
    Now, with eventually 8 teams in the lower division would that still be adequate?

    And again, am I completely off target here and with 2 more players we should have 7 teams divisions with a "rest" turn? (I particularly don't like the rest turn ...)

    Any help is appreciated.
    Ciao.
     
  2. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    I’m in a small private league with around 30 teams and tv disparity does become an issue after a couple of seasons, especially due to re-rolling.

    We have managed without any restrictions for four seasons, but we are introducing tv limits for divisions as of next season. Div 1, for example, will be 1700 tv, so each team will need to trim their tv equal to or below that limit (including mng players) for the start of the next season.
     
  3. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    I've been pondering this topic since you posted last night. Realistically I don't think that I would structure it any differently than you have currently.

    You could consider 3 promotion/relegation slots, but otherwise I think you have done ll that you can, unless as danton say's you're willing to start capping TV using your own re-drafting rules, which is very much in the spirit of both BB2016 and BB2020 rules. It could be argued that coaches need to start considering it now ready for BB3, so this could be a strategic headstart for other leagues.
     
  4. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

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    I think that is the best way to do it assuming the games are played online.

    If it was in a club where you all turn up 1 night a week and play blood bowl I would make it 7 in each division and and have each coach playing the team from the other division who is on the rest week. And you can seed it so the winner of last season plays the best team from the lower division and the new teams play the worst.
     
  5. Silfuin

    Silfuin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, we are playing online, so eventual cross-division games are not possible.
     
  6. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Sadly the league structures in BB2 are quite poor, worse than the limited formats BB1 had. With no cup format other than straight knockout anymore and no option to play opponents within a division more than once, it's only really tiered or ladder leagues.
     
  7. Street

    Street Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully BB3 will have more love and otpions for league setups
     
  8. Silfuin

    Silfuin Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting Danton.
    How you defined the value of 1700?
     
  9. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    It just felt like a good middle ground tv level between div 1 and 2. Teams that get promoted tend to be around that level, while several teams in div 1 are over 2000 tv now, which isn’t much fun for promoted teams to face.
     
  10. Silfuin

    Silfuin Well-Known Member

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    Thank you all for your input.

    It turned out that the additional players is just one, therefore we will have div1 with 6 players and div2 with 7 players and a rest turn.

    That will leave the problem of div1 having 2 less match days than div2.
    Do I want to leave it like that, thus giving the lower tv teams a couple of matches to catch up with the biggies?
    Doesn't seem like a bad idea.
    Only drawback is that div 1 we'll have a long break time between seasons ...
     
  11. Silfuin

    Silfuin Well-Known Member

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    Asfor a possible cap for the next season, what do you think of the opposite, that is giving some help to the newly promoted lower tv teams?
     
  12. Jorgen_CAB

    Jorgen_CAB New Member

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    I think we have to look at what Blood Bowl the game is designed around... it actually is designed for seasonal play around 8-12 games with each division having between 4-8 teams in general a few more probably is fine too. But the amount of games played in each season should be about 8-12 as that is what the game is sort of designed around in general.

    I think that the redrafting rules in the new 2020 rules seem rather solid where each team get money based on how they did last season and there is a cap on 1.300.000 plus any cash in their treasure to redraft players... you then also pay en extra 20.000gc for each full season a previous player participated in. This will also make it more fun to develop teams as you need to make some interesting choices at the end of each season as to which players you want to rehire.

    I believe that any well developed leagues teams should have teams that hover around 1300 to around 1600 TV. Any new teams should perhaps not expect to do that well in the first season and be quite competitive in their second season if they managed to develop decently in their first season.
     
  13. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    That may be what BB is designed around but its not the only way to play. BB at ca. 2000 TV can be a lot of fun too because the different skill interactions create a lot of added complexity and make the puzzles deeper. Also having developed teams allows for playstyles that don't work that well at 1600 TV. 1600 TV is fun cause a lot of different teams are viable at that TV and that's not as true at TV2000 but I really like the high TV game too.
     
  14. Jorgen_CAB

    Jorgen_CAB New Member

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    I have played allot of BB with very long running teams and where there were no drafting rules at all, teams just levelled up until players died off more or less.. but that was many game generations ago though for me. That probably work best in a group with friends that you know and can have fun with playing in a semi competitive fashion, not so well in any sort of real competitive environment in my opinion. You might have more diversity in team development but much less diversity in teams...

    While I really loved our star teams I don't think I would appreciate it that much anymore for the reason that you gave... game balance works best some where around 1600 TV and most teams are still viable at that point. I also think the new rules of 2020 will make teams at TV 1600 very interesting as you can have way more diverse skills and more skills now as you can get random skills for both cheaper and less SPP... so that will be interesting to see how that turns out. But that is for the future.
     
  15. patbou73

    patbou73 Active Member

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    Just invite non-RL friends to you league, to fill the divisions. ;)