Stalker's Skaven Shenanigans (a lot of images)

Juriel

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For those new to the show, this is where I will be watching each and every match of the race that I happen to be playing at the time (previously Necro, now Skaven), that gets played in Orca-Cola, and pointing out to everyone else the mistakes they make.

But OCC Season 17 only has 7 Skaven teams, you say? That just means double the time to find fault in their play!

1 - Michelangelo87 - Crimsonblood Critters
4a - Willpower68 - 24 Carat
4d - Stuartddj - 13 green bottles
6b - Juriel - Beauty And The Beasts
6b - miticulin - Cheese's Cultists
6c - BrotherKane - queaky clean
6d - Midros - Mutant Fantasy

Yes, I am excluding Skaven teams in the SSC divisions (4 of them, or there about). Unless I get bored. Or get asked to review one in particular. I will also pay less attention to my own plays, since they basically read 'came, got lucky, won' every single time.

Since this is a copy-paste from OCC, I am jumping over the first matchday, seeing how they were text-only reports. Trust me, those early matches went horribly for everyone involved (who weren't me). Let's just charitably assume it was because people were rusty after a few week's break before the season.

Anyway, let's get the copy-paste show on the road! It'll be image-heavy, as the title says, so deal with it.
 
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Juriel

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WEEK 2

I will begin by showcasing a match I was involved in, just to cover some basics before we go further in. This won't touch on the actual match itself, for reasons outlined above, just some things that came up during it.

6b - Beauty And The Beasts (juriel) vs Cheese's Cultists (miticulin)
A skill-buffed team meets Miticulin's newer, almost completely unskilled team. That means they're getting a total of 390k inducements, but with both teams only having 11 players on the pitch, you have a few options - let's look at three such:

INDUCEMENTS
There's the 'I want to win AND destroy you' choice of: Wizard + Bribe + 2 Babes
There's the all-around compromise of: Wizard + Apo + 2 Babes
And then, there's what the newbie team actually picked: Chef + an extra Loner linerat...

Concerning inducements, AV7 teams' biggest foe tends to be KOs, so Babes helps out loads with those. They're on average as good as an extra player, each! Same thing with the apo - you can always use him to heal a Badly Hurt result (let alone the option to save someone from a bigger hurt), which is the equal of an extra body on the bench, but you can use it to keep your best players going. A Bribe trades the safety of the apo into a faster attrition rate towards the opponent's team, which is more likely to help you win the game now, but has less security for the next matches.

With Chef as their actual pick, it was not likely to swing the game, since Chef on average only steals 1.5 rerolls away. And as said, the other team had more skills all over, so they were more likely to not need the rerolls in the first place. And with a higher Fan Factor (which comes from drawing/winning matches, which they had more of behind them), the experienced team was likely to get extra rerolls from kick-off events.

RECEIVE OR KICK?
Since Beauty got the choice of whether to receive or kick, and they had 2 players with Mighty Blow, and both sides only had 11-12 players... The logical choice for them was to receive, so they can eliminate the opponent's numbers. Normally, it behooves a team like Skaven to kick first, so they can defend at full strength, since scoring shouldn't be too hard even when missing a few players, but I guess they were afraid for their own 11 player roster getting reduced early.

CROWD-SURFING
If you get pushed into the crowd (over the edge of the pitch), called 'surfing' for short, you stand a better chance of getting hurt. The crowd acts like they automatically broke your armor, so it's just as painful whether you're a halfling or an orc. As such, never position such as the below images show!

First against a single Frenzy player who can get 2 pushes against you.

frANx1x.jpg


And the second shows how marking someone (or even standing one step away from them) when only 1 step from the edge could be used to first push you in front of that player, who would then push you off the pitch.

0tfZu3x.jpg


MAKE USE OF ONLY ONE BLITZ
You know how you can only make one blitz per turn? That means, if you have two players who aren't in contact with anyone, the opponent cannot get rid of both their tackle zones. In the below picture, Cheese has in theory laid out tackle zones to prevent diagonal advance, but their linerat is next to people on the LOS (so he's gonna get punched), and the Thrower is by himself (so he can get blitzed after that) - either of these things would open up the path.

If the Gutter Runner who is now behind the Rat Ogre would instead be standing between them (preferrably with the Thrower also one step forwards), it would limit the options the opponent has to move (stopping them from advancing through that route). This being Skaven, they could still run around the LOS and mostly end up around the Rat Ogre, but sometimes being able to slow the opponent down by just a few steps can be key.

YukNltn.jpg


Anyway, just a few things of note, since commenting on the 4-1 match itself would be tedious, due to its lopsided nature.
 
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Juriel

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6d - Mutant Fantasy (midros) vs Bashtroit RedRavagers (norse)
Another big TV gap, which the Skaven smartly try to bridge with Wizard, Dirty Player linerat, Bribe, Apo and Babes, bringing both teams up to 12 players. Courageously, rats still choose to kick first, although their choice of formation allows Norse to freely choose exactly who they want to blitz. The Thrower is especially prominently displayed in the front, rather than being off on the sidelines for a defensive drive.

8BV3rsp.jpg


And sure enough, the Norse POMBzerker KOs a Gutter Runner, prompting Skaven to avenge by KOing an Ulfwerener! Unnerved by this, Norse want to get rid of the ball (apparently not daring to cage up for fear of the Wizard), and pass it with their Thrower, but the pass is inaccurate! But, to show there is no justice, the ball scatters onto their Yhetee, from where it bounces onto their Ulfwerener, who catches it! Thus, Nuffle works overtime to save Norse from an early turnover and a likely Skaven score.

UIIEX0n.jpg


Now, this would've been the best time there was going to be to hit the Ulfwerener with lightning (the odds of it landing in only one tackle zone are high!), but Skaven rather wait for Norse to move the ball up, and for a few more rats to get taken off the pitch, and then end up using a fireball once it's too late to benefit from it. They do follow things up with a prodigious number of crowd-surfs, breaking the neck of the POMBzerker, but their fouls sadly do nothing. They went as far as to rather surf a guy, than to mark the Ulfwerener (and the guy next to him) with multiple players for turn 8, which would've forced them into at least a reroll-less hand-off - now that is dedication!

But dedication turns into dumbness when, after the Norse score with the Ulfwerener, rats get a Riot going for turn 8, and now have 2 turns to get into scoring range, with all of the Norse players way back in front of their endzone... Yet the rats don't even try to take advantage of this, and rather try to hurt the meaningless LOS crew, just getting one of their own number sent off! I can understand wanting to avoid a risky one-turner in favor of trying to eliminate opponents, but not to even try a 2-turner? They could've taken the LOS crew down and still placed all of their Gutter Runners within scoring range (yet out of blitzing range), but nope!

Second half, when Norse fail a GFI to surf a rat early, Skaven have multiple options on which way to take things. See if you can spot them all!

JdtrfZQ.jpg


Of course, the worst option is the one they chose, which was to take a 1d-block against the Norse Thrower on the left, with an unskilled Gutter Runner. This came up as skull, rerolled into bothdown, and that was their turn then and there - surely it would've been better to just bite the bullet and dodge one of the other Gutter Runners in as an assist/blitz? Then you would've punched a hole that you could've moved a free Gutter Runner or two through, and formed a sidecage with them to hand the ball into.

So, anyway, Norse Jump Up with their Berzerker and surf the Gutter Runner on the left, blitz to surf the linerat next to him, mark everyone, KO the remaining Gutter Runners, chase the Skaven Thrower into the Skaven endzone, grab the ball, win 2-0, while a Loner linerat steals the MVP.
 

Juriel

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No pictures from this debacle, sorry! At least this shows what my match reports tended to be like, before I got triggerhappy with the PrtScr button.

1 - Crimsonblood Critters (michelangelo) vs Bear Hunters (chaos)
What was I saying about inducements? There's a 940k TV difference between these teams! Skaven get basically everything but bribes, and it's 16 rats vs 15 chaos, with rats choosing to kick first.

And things are off to a nice start, when Skaven get a Blitz! Chaos have almost everyone on the middle line, but Skaven get around them and under the ball... which looks entirely too promising, so they follow this up by placing their AG4 AV5 Thrower next to some nasty MB people. And sure enough, he is the first casualty, while Chaos harass the Gutter Runners with the ball against the edge. They get out from there, but then don't try 2 GFIs to score early, and instead leave him within one dodge of a Beast... whose blitz fails due to the Gutter Runner's Foul Appearance! Every time I think it's a wasted pick, it proves me wrong! And so, Skaven manage to stall one extra turn and still score with ease.

Now, curiously enough, the Skaven defensive formation protects their Rat Ogre more than their Gutter Runners, despite the presence of TacklePOMBers... One of which makes them use an apo to save their Leaping Big Hand Gutter from a smashed ankle! Now, Chaos are carrying the ball on their MA5 blodge Beast, who gets marked by a Sidestepper and the Strip Baller... Which Chaos react to by injuring the Rat Ogre off (well, wasn't he useful and worth protecting?) and just handing the ball to a nearby Beast. Rats Strip the ball away from him, but it lands in the middle of Chaos, in a spot where the Leaping Big Hand Gutter would have been perfect - if only he hadn't been left on the frontlines to get hurt, you know.

So, Chaos kills some rats, gets the ball, then... Try to dodge away from a linerat, having forgotten they had to use their reroll to blitz the Foul Appearance star Gutter earlier (FA was useful once more, to the shock of everyone!), and Chaos have to apo the MA5 Blodge Beast's Dead result into an even worse ST-break! The ball is on the ground, in the middle of some Chaos Warriors and... Skaven don't settle for marking them with multiple players, but try to pick the ball up with a linerat, scattering it into the hands of one of them! Chaos just double-GFI the score in, and Skaven have lost half their team for nothing.

SECOND HALF

Now, Skaven could get a fast score in through the side, if they just took down a lone lv6 Beast without Block or Dodge on him... but instead, they decide to pick a fight at the LOS, against everyone, crowding all their players there and starting their turn with a 1d-blitz. Well, there's no way that could end bad! One turn later, half their team has vanished into the casualty box... But Skaven are still trying to stall for a few turns, packing themselves into a tight bunch on one side of the pitch. Which approach of ignores the whole thing about having again lost half their team, and so have to try a miracle run with a Gutter Runner in short order, who KOs himself, dropping the ball in the middle of Chaos. After which Skaven waste their Wizard on a spiteful blast, now that it's too late. Chaos removes everyone and scores at their leisure.

Probably should've just gone for a Guarded blitz against that corner Beast, made a quick pass to a Gutter Runner, ran him into a sidecage (since all of Chaos was near the middle line, because screw positioning), then scored on turn 10, with the still Wizard available for Chaos's return drive. But maybe I'm crazy and like winning.
 

Juriel

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4a - 24 Carat (willpower68) vs Blood Omen (darkelf)
Finally, a match where Skaven have the upper hand in TV! DE bring a Babe with them, and plenty of skills on their players, but Skaven are the ones with a deep bench. With 13 players vs 11, Skaven go against tradition and choose to receive first, hoping to capitalize on that advantage, even if they have no Tackle with which to go after all them blodgers.

And sure enough, Skaven waste their blitz by hitting an AG5 blodger with a hopeful Claw Vermin, who they get stuck next to with double-bothdown results. DE get a lot more done: take a Gutter Runner down with their POMB Witch (though fear of the foul keeps her from Piling On throughout the whole match!), KO the Claw Vermin and then mark the ball-carrying Gutter Runner with their Tackler! Skaven blitz him free and keep the ball deep in their backfield, while the Rat Ogre injures a line-elf off. This keeps up until Skaven get worried, and as elves notably did not mark the Gutter Runner who is in scoring range with any of their Tackle (perhaps to tempt a fast score?), Skaven run ahead, hand the ball off and score on turn 4.

Skaven aim the ball deep, but then get a Blitz on kick-off, and the Rat Ogre injures another line-elf off while opening the path for them! Skaven run near the ball, while DE get it into a cage, running out of rerolls while their backside is still totally exposed. But should that and a Prehensile Tail stop something like elves? Of course not, so they just waltz off and complete their haphazard cage.

99ZjhC8.jpg


Now, Skaven do manage to bust into the cage with the RO and mark the Runner, but then they realize that with the unnecessary linerat standing there, because they pushed the line-elf into the directly down, they will now need to dodge into 2 tackle zones to mark the Runner with their Diving Tackle Gutter Runner, rather than being able to just walk him there. The dodge fails, and consequently, elves also AV-break the big rat, helped by their tons of Guard!

But you can always trust on elves getting cocky, and DE run their Runner almost alone into the Skaven half, while still remaining within easy reach of the Dauntless Wrestle Strip Ball Gutter Runner. But rats do not try to go for him, rather making a GFI-Leap with another Gutter Runner first (when they could've marked his Dump-Off target regularly just as well), which fails and makes it impossible for them to do anything about the turn 8 score.

SECOND HALF

gOktpiU.jpg


I know what you're thinking... That once again, Skaven could easily GFI to hit the Runner with their Stripper. But they're not going to do that, when they can instead dodge into FOUR tacklezones (through Tackle, at that!) to get the hit going. Still, results are what matters, and they get the ball loose! Only for their Leaper to fail again, before they even attempted to get their DT/Sidestep Gutter Runner near the ball... And so, Skaven dwindle down from 9 vs 11 situation to 9 vs 8, and then 8 vs 7... But once again, you can trust elves to get cocky!

VxUmZfU.jpg


Still they leave their Runner completely exposed to the Horns + Wrestle linerat, who takes him down, and the Dump-Off scatters out of the cage! Yet once again, Skaven choose the worst possible dodging route, trying to go directly into 2 tackle zones to get at the ball, rather than take the safe route around. So, his dodge fails, every rat gets stunned, elves grab the ball back... And only the Horns linerat can save the day again! He wrestles the ball-carrying Blitzer down, and then it's only one dodge away from a Gutter Runner!

Who fails his dodge, while elves fail nothing, and end the game 2-1.

Don't let this happen to you. Remember: unnecessary dice rolls do not make you any more of a man, just an elf-enabler.
 

Juriel

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6c - queaky clean (brotherkane) vs Grotzland Babyeaters (orc)
Two new teams face, both with just 11 players. And Orcs choose to receive first, now there's a shocker! Of course, right away on first turn, there's a linerat casualty, and though Orcs have barely any one in the backfield, there's a mile-wide gap to run the Thrower into the safety of a cage...

0B2qb0D.jpg


And notice the Rat Ogre there, thrown into the middle of all the orcs by himself. He won't be around in the next screenshots! Things might have gone differently for him, if he had actually knocked the Orc Blitzer with his first block, rather than Frenzying into an easy 2d-punchable position as a follow-up... So, Orcs get rid of him, and then stand around in their ST4 cage, which surely means a lot of trouble for Skaven, but to their credit, they do their best to throw all the unskilled 1-die blitzes against the Thrower they possibly can...

pwGOOTE.jpg


...but there's just no stopping the inevitable, and Orcs score on turn 8. Now, even with Skaven missing half their team already, they're still going to bravely try for a 6-man one-turning effort - I was going to say, it might've been better to throw less people at the cage and just lie down and wait for your shot... But Orcs get a Perfect Defense on kick-off, so there's nothing that would've helped by then.

dC2kxFF.jpg


Second half, Skaven get one KO back and go up to 7 players. And how do they utilize them and make the most of it?

5GsHL2X.jpg


Of course by forming a cage up front! While low in guys, I repeat. If the Orcs wanted, they could box the rats in then and there, surrounding them from all sides. Instead, they just blitz in through one corner, and try to force Skaven to run a quick score down one side... But get an even better result when the first Skaven block turnovers them right away!

TGWCsLu.jpg


Still, this is actually a solid shot for Skaven to pick the ball up in a single tacklezone and run around the Orcs, getting into scoring distance and hope their Dodge holds true... Well, that gets far, because they double-1 on their very first dodge! With nothing to do about it, Orcs win 2-0, while Skaven go into the next match missing 3 players.

Really, it seems the best shot Skaven ever had, was right on turn 1, GFIng with the Gutter Runners to block the path between the Thrower and the LOS crew, and hope they don't get blitzed down to open up a path through... And that sounds like a slim chance.
 

Juriel

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How should we finish the week off? Why not with a little bit of...

4d - 13 green bottles (stuartddj) vs Boom Boiz (goblin)
11 rats vs 13 Gobbos, and the Gobbos come with 2 Bribes! In spite of the injury odds of that, Skaven still choose to kick first, and continue their kamikaze lifestyle choices by placing themselves only one step from the middle line... So when Quick Snap happens, Goblins can get freebie hits in, or they rather COULD, but do not take the opportunity and just waltz around, in the end ending up blitzing with a Troll they could've gotten a free hit with just as well!

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And because Goblins did not use that blitz to, say, chainsaw the Leap Block Gutter Runner who was left completely in the open as if begging for it? Surely the biggest threat to any of their caging efforts? Well, that very Runner leaps in and knocks the ball loose... And so the play proceeds: Skaven score one defensive touchdown now, then, every time the Gobbos get one in while Skaven numbers drop, the rats one-turn in another!

And that is how the match ends 4-3. An impressive number... if it wasn't against Goblins.
 

Juriel

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Week 3!

6c - queaky clean (brotherkane) vs Unholy Butchers (nurgle)
Nurgle choose to kick in the Sweltering Heat, and Skaven cage up on the LOS, while Nurgle keep standing in the distance, with their Beast in the middle, waiting to get positioned. Even so, with all of the pitch to run around in, Skaven position themselves so that the Beast can bust in and mark their Thrower through one corner!

zVbxGxb.jpg


As their primary solution, they go for blitzing him off with their Rat Ogre, whose Wild Animal ruins the day! Even moreso when they try to use a team reroll to get him to move, and nope, just wasting everything. Surely it would've been higher odds to start with dodging a Gutter Runner in as an assist, and 1d-blocking the Beast with a Stormvermin? That would work 5 times in 6, with a reliable reroll available... And it's what they ended up doing anyway, only without the reroll option!

So, Skaven get rid of the Beast and retreat a step, while Nurgle... settles for again just standing in the way, still not trying to push the pace at all. And Skaven again try to blitz with the RO, and again waste a team reroll on it, even when it wasn't a critical moment! And they carry on somehow managing to leave all of their three Gutter Runners marked by the Beast and his Tentacles, and with their Thrower open to a blitz from a Nurgle Warrior! It ends as expected, with all of their Gutter Runners held tight in Tentacles for another turn in a row.

But then, a miracle! On the last turn, with a lone Rotter having carried the ball right next to the endzone, the Rat Ogre dodges away from the other Nurgle players and...

Ru45VDe.jpg


First half ends with no-one scoring. I guess it could be worse.

SECOND HALF

It's 8 rats vs 10 Nurgle, with Sweltering Heat doing surprisingly little. While Nurgle focus on caging up the ball in their half, Skaven KILL a Rotter, and then... start their turn by blocking with a Loner linerat, double-skulling, wasting a reroll and turnovering! Nurgle run the cage into the Skaven half, but Rat Ogre blitzes a Pest corner KOed and marks the ball-carrier! Nurgle clear him off, but Skaven burst back in, marking the ball-carrying Pest from all sides, while also KOing another Rotter... But then, as their final move, well, just watch.

YqHl28X.jpg


That's right, everything was going so well for them, that they seek to ruin it by placing a Gutter Runner between a Warrior and the Pest, from where he can chainpush the ball-carrier away from the rats! As such, Nurgle clear their path with ease and walk into the Skaven half... But the now-reroll-less Skaven dodge a linerat and a Vermin in, and KO that Pest too! Still, with their Thrower stuck to some Warriors near the mid-field, and with only one Gutter Runner remaining, they're left with just fumbling the ball wtih a linerat.

Ending the game in an unseemly 0-0 draw! Also, the gimped AV7 Stormvermin steals the MVP.
 

Juriel

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1 - Crimsonblood Critters (michelangelo) vs Uruk-Hai Marauders II (orc)
Uh-oh. 1000 TV difference between the two teams...

Orcs choose to receive, shocking everyone, and continue that keen tactical sense by placing everyone up front. Everyone possible Piles On, getting one linerat KOed and another hurt. A failed foul on the induced Headsplitter gets a lv4 lineorc sent off right away, so Orcs only have FIVE players still standing when it's all said and done! Yet... Skaven don't GFI to mark the Thrower with their Sidestep Runner, and then spend their blitz on the Headsplitter, yet don't even move him into a position to hold some lying-down orcs still! Their Morg is also tied up by a Stand Firm Black Orc, so he was obviously positioned well.

Still, Orcs don't know how tackle zones work...

kyqkzfZ.jpg


Yep, that's them leaving their Thrower open for a Guard Gutter Runner assist, so the Wrestle linerat can take him down! Unfortunately, that linerat also has to showboat when he still lives, so he grabs hold of the ball and... tries to dodge through the tackle zones of the Diving Tackle Blitzer he's parked next to! This naturally fails, and Orcs hurt some rats off. They also put a whole of effort on Headsplitter, which looks like the only way he could prove useful in the whole drive.... But he gets promptly KOed, and the Orc Thrower recovers the ball. Of course, they leave him open yet again...

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That's right, Morg can GFI an assist in, so the +AG Wrestle Linerat can once again blitz the ball free... And once again it gets caught from the air, only this time, it's by Morg!

Then the Two Heads Gutter Runner just needs to dodge past another Diving Tackle Blitzer, to prevent Orcs from getting enough dice to hit Morg, but he fails. So Orcs take Morg down, but only then realize they moved all their own players already, and in the way of their Thrower, so he cannot get to the ball, which fell right in front of downed Gutter Runner! With one of their other Gutter Runners within scoring range!

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Surely this is the best shot Skaven are going to get, and they take it... Only for the Gutter Runner to fumble the simple 3+ pick-up, even with their last reroll!

Orcs proceed to almost kill the AG4 Wrestle linerat (apo to the rescue of the lone hero!), surf a Stormvermin, and then there's just the two Gutter Runners and Morg left on the pitch. Orcs pass the ball to their waiting Blitzer to still salvage the drive... but he fails the catch! But Morg doesn't manage to blitz a Diving Tackle Blitzer down, so the Gutter Runner cannot dodge clear, and as their last option, Skaven lightningbolt the Orc Blitzer who is the only player within reach of the endzone.

Orcs respond by KOing the Gutter Runners, leaving Morg to double-skull by himself, hurting himself out of the game. Pitch cleared through their own hand!

SECOND HALF

With Babes working well, it's still 9 rats vs the Orc army. But Skaven seek to waste any chance this gets them by bunching up in the middle, in order to beat up the Orc LOS crew... Even when it makes them so easy to box in!

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The only player of theirs left unmarked is the Gutter Runner holding the ball in their half, who brings the ball up and passes it to another Gutter Runner once this manages to dodge free... And as it transpires, he's the only player they manage to get free, with the next dodge failing, leaving the Gutters both open to a Tackle Blitzer's hit... Which comes up as just pushes, actually speeding the Sidestep Gutter with the ball along!

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Now, the Blitzer marking the ball-carrying Gutter does still have Diving Tackle and Tackle, so what Skaven could do is dodge the other Gutter free and blitz him, as all they need from their 1d-blitz is to get a push... And even in the case of a bothdown result, they would still have a Sidestepper available to guard the ball with. So instead, they first move that second Gutter near the endzone, to have him standing in place when they plan to stall the play for one turn there. In practise, this means the ball-carrier is left to dodge by himself, getting tackled down and stunning himself.

Orcs pass the ball onwards, stall, and score on turn 16, winning the match 1-0, with 3 rats left on the pitch.
 

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4a - 24 Carat (willpower68) vs Wraith Gate Slavers (darkelf)
12-player DE with blodge all over vs 13-player Skaven without even a single Tackle... Well that certainly looks promising.

DE choose to receive, and thanks to the Skaven formation, get an easy hit on the front-most Gutter Runner with their own Tackler, breaking his neck! So apo gets used on fixing that, and it's down to the 9 remaining rats to stop the drive. But then, DE push down a side in a hurry, and try to double-GFI their MB Blitzer in as cover and, well...

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Fear and respect the GFI! With the ball-carrier getting easily blitzed in the face, he panics and Dump-Offs, scattering the ball to the ground even though he just got pushed. But even given this golden opportunity, Skaven do not try to pick the ball up with just one elf tackle-zone on it and rather just crowd around it... Which DE makes use of by just pushing a surrounding rat onto it, bouncing the ball away from them, and show just how easy it is to dodge into a tacklezone, pick up a ball there and dodge back out.

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But as everyone sees, Skaven still have a chance to 1d-blitz the Runner with their Stormvermin up there! But instead they choose to just stand in their way, but luckily DE score fast rather than stalling in their superior position.

Skaven drive starts with a High Kick, which they use for a Gutter Runner to catch the ball... only for him to run ahead and hand the ball to their Thrower. Who won't even move that turn! Surely it would've been better to just have the Thrower try to catch the ball right away and then walk into the cage? Or at least keep the ball on the Gutter Runner a moment longer, seeing how the blodge+sidestep Blitzer is within range to just bust into the cage and mark the Thrower?

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Now, Skaven do easily open up a path through the middle, and could use the free linerat there to blitz an elf off a Gutter Runner... But instead, they pass to the linerat, who then runs ahead and hands the ball off to a Gutter Runner (who is still in a tacklezone). Why? Why not just run the Thrower there and make the pass with him then?

And this still leaves DE with 2 turns to score back. Skaven do get a Perfect Defense on kick-off, but mostly use it to move their players heavily towards one side, so the DE can run a ton of people down the other. But then their gamble becomes evident when DE ignore the Pass Block Gutter in their way and run forward to make the pass, with the ball ending in his intercepting hands! He hands it ahead, and Skaven score on turn 8! I still don't think I like the odds of that as the master plan.

SECOND HALF

Things suddenly look a lot better, with Skaven receiving while being 2-1 in the lead. So what better time for Elves to get... a Blitz! They run all up in that business and catch the ball!

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Of course, they're also right next to the Dauntless+Wrestle+Strip Gutter Runner, who springs the ball loose, and this time Skaven retrieve it from in front of an elf with their +AG linerat. Elves bust in and mark him from all sides, and it's once again time to pick from a couple of options!

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Skaven could dodge a Gutter in as an assist, then blitz with the ball-carrier himself, since while everyone around him is a blodger, even a push would enable him to dodge into the clear... Or they could do something with chainpushes, even in the worst case enabling the linerat to hand the ball to a Gutter Runner while only marked by a single elf... But Skaven think they see yet another option!

3VFcfEh.jpg


Yes, they blitz an elf so that no tacklezones are cleared at all, and in fact move then to block their own dodging paths! And then try to go for a dodge into 2 tackle zones, injuring the +AG linerat off, dropping the ball in front of elves, who pick it up and score because you cannot give away a goal better than that.

Still, the game is just 2-2, and Skaven should be able to handle this since they are receiving... And once again, they cage up tightly in the middle, so DE can surround them as they please.

tH9OtSl.jpg


But Skaven open up the path with their Horns Wrestle linerat, and then start dodging past the Sidestep Tackle Blitzer... And while elves do get a blitz against the Wrestle ball-carrier with a line-elf, they only get pushes, while not putting any of their actually threatening players up there (rather using them to hit rats around the LOS). Now that would be a golden opportunity for Skaven to stall for a bit, with no Frenzy or Tackle or Sidestep around, while their own dodgers are all up there! So they do NOT.

And now Elves have 4 turns to score back and turn this thing into a draw. And while Skaven actually KO one lineman and injure another, Elves just go around them and hand the ball to their Wrestle Witch in a tight sidecage on turn 14.

swvhgUi.jpg


Now, the lowest Blitzer there is the one with Sidestep, so he cannot be used for anything fun. But the rats would only need to get two pushes (against all them blodgers) in order to chainpush the Witch off the pitch...

And instead of that, Skaven swarm around it and go for the hardest option once again, trying to go into 4 tacklezones rather than do it from below and 'only' go into 2. So that fails, Elves push the single Gutter Runner out of their way and score.

M3QTHMM.jpg


With one turn left, Skaven have a prime opportunity to still win with a one-turner. But they don't even try, and settle for the 3-3 draw. And then they don't even foul any elves at the end of the match!
 

Juriel

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Okay, that bothered me enough, that it's time for...
School of Stalk
Or, a look at how things should have gone!

Part 1: THE SITUATION

J6NoNAI.jpg


Oh no! The elves have secured themselves into a tight side-cage, and I have no Frenzy! What do I do?



Part 2: THE PLAYERS

iCdWKbt.jpg


The marked DE Blitzer has Dodge+Sidestep+Tackle, the marked linerat has Wrestle+Horns. The other players' skills don't matter for what we're about to do.

The Sidestep is important because it means we cannot blitz him upwards for a chain-push / to mark the ball-carrier, while Tackle makes dodging into the cage unattractive.



Part 3: THE SETUP

Z692if3.jpg


Black marks the path to move, white marks a block and the pushes following it.

The Gutter Runner is completely free, so we move him (rather than risking double-1s on dodging).
Then we block with the Stormvermin, and we get our choice of 3 squares to push him into. We push him into the lineman, who gets moved downwards.



Part 4: THE PAYOFF

gQhgzhN.jpg


The picture is now modified to show where the players would end up.

First, we need to remove the Sidestep Blitzer's assist for what we're about to do, so a Gutter Runner dodges free and marks him.
Now, the Horns Linerat is completely free, and blitzes the previously chain-pushed line-elf into the Witch.
Witch goes off the pitch.

The rats circled in white are the intended ball-retrievers, free to move where the ball happened to land.
 

Juriel

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6b - Cheese's Cultists (miticulin) vs Azrael Cruel Princes (highelf)
Both teams need to bring in a Loner to shore up their numbers, only elves being elves, they have a ton more skills on their permanent fixtures (while rats get Babes and a Wizard). And with an MB Blitzer running around, Skaven don't dare take their chances, and just receive first. In the pouring rain, which will last through the whole match.

Skaven set up a receiver in the elf half, making 3 dodges through tacklezones to do so, and I'm fearing an early attempt at a long pass. Still, that potential receiver tempts Elves to blitz him with their Dodge+Tackle line-elf, who turnovers early with a bothdown result! Skaven move that Gutter Runner into the endzone, out of the range of other elves, get a remarkable advantage by injuring a line-elf off and... hold the ball at the middle, in a spot that is definitely not safe.

d6gzYqm.jpg


Sure enough, Elves stun a corner and blitz the Gutter Runner with the ball, but only get pushes! It's turn 2 and they've already spent 2 of their rerolls on blitzing efforts. And while they cannot blitz the endzone-waiting Gutter Runner off the pitch, they can GFI their Tackler to pin him against the edge there, while surrounding the ball-carrier as best they can...

ydiz27J.jpg


But then, rather than Skaven simply dodging into the clear along the left side there, and forming a cage down the pitch and hoping to hurt some more elves, they try to hand the ball off in the RAIN, dropping it in front of the elves! If you're gonna do that, how is it not more sensible to dodge with the Gutter already holding the ball? Elves KO some rats and blitz the Gutter Runners off the ball, but fail a dodge before getting to the ball itself.

Skaven manage to grab the ball from in front of them, and run into their own half with it, while more of their players get KOed. They do eventually get that Gutter Runner into the elf half with just a single linerat for cover... but elves still cannot take him down! So they just settle for marking them from all sides, with a Tackler included.

HokAN5X.jpg


Now, this is decisive time. The circled elf? He is the lone Tackler of the elf team. The circled Gutter Runner? You will notice how he is well within reach of giving the linerat an assist against the Tackler, which would allow him to block the bad Tackle away, and for the ball-carrier to dodge through just one tacklezone in order to score...

But instead, Skaven move that Gutter Runner ahead, where he will do absolutely nothing, and just try to rush through the tackle zone, even though with no rerolls left and the Tackle next to them, it's effectively making a naked AG3 roll to decide their whole game... and the dodge fails, Elves grab the ball, pass it on, and score on turn 8.

SECOND HALF

Skaven get their KOs back and lightningbolt the elf Thrower the moment he picks up the ball in their backfield, injuring him out! This means Skaven have a 2-man advantage on the pitch and could swarm the elf half sensibly, since they moved everyone but that Thrower into the Skaven half already... but instead, they move just their Gutter Runners up there, while keeping the other players tentatively back...

This means the lone Gutter Runners get marked on all sides, there's no-one nearby to help them get free, and then they start their turn (within scoring distance of the ball that has been dropped right by the elven endzone) by trying to dodge through two tacklezones while again marked by the only Tackler on the whole damn elf team. The dodge fails, of course, and that Gutter Runner gets KOed, followed shortly by another as he gets punched by the elves he was marking...

So, elves grab the ball back and score with a long pass, showing how they don't need a Thrower to make a half-pitch throw, and basically win the match 2-0.
 

Juriel

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6d - Mutant Fantasy (midros) vs The Swiss (chaos)
Ah, Skaven are again at TV-disadvantage, these ones getting 400k inducements (Babes, Wizard, Wrestle linerat). Of course, much of that TV on the Chaos side is made up by their Claw Minotaur, and emboldened by the thought of being immune to him, Skaven choose to kick first.

And the ball lands in the empty LOS space in the very center of the pitch, while Chaos have to reroll a double-skulls on their very first block! They fetch it onto their AG4 Warrior, then the Mino niggles a linerat, and the cage moves forwards...

pZfCf0F.jpg


And it's time for the Wizard to step in, as early as it is, downing enough Chaos players with the fireball to drop the ball in front of a Gutter Runner and a Warrior... Aaand it's gone in a flash, with the Gutter Runner out of Chaos range next to their endzone, scoring on the next turn.

And the turn 4 kick-off? Starts with a blitz result! A Gutter Runner runs under the ball and catches it, but Chaos dodge their Block/Tackle Beast free and take him down, surrounding the ball with everyone afterwards.

iBu2Io3.jpg


Skaven go for the smart push onto the ball, but it just gets lodged firmer in the middle of them all... And Skaven throw all their own players at the players around it, certainly tying them up, but again, the AG4 Warrior picks up the ball again and runs into moderate safety.

HY1enJY.jpg


Skaven could get a 1d hit against the Warrior, if they just managed to take down the Tackle Beast in their way, but they just end up pushing him around a bit, and choose to retreat, to just slow down the cage advance. And this works nicely, as Chaos only gets one Beast within scoring distance for turn 8, and he is easily taken down. Afterwards, Skaven foul the Tackle Beast, just in case.

SECOND HALF

Skaven are 1-0 up, and receiving now. That certainly sounds good, but then their offensive formation looks like they don't have anything at all planned...

hdu066B.jpg


Yes, I think the circled Beast is the weak link - they could've punched the Warrior down, then blitzed through there, swarming the whole Chaos half. This is doubly true when Chaos kick the ball off the pitch, and Skaven can give it to whoever they want.

So, anyway, instead, Skaven bunch up on one side, and Chaos block their path with the Mino, while marking everyone else. And the first Skaven action, is to reroll a bothdown-skull result with a Stormvermin into double-skulls! There wasn't even anything to be gained by getting the Warrior he was punching down, as opposed to just running all the Gutter Runners to the other side of the pitch.

f4h0mG1.jpg


Skaven get taken down, lose the ball, are absolutely surrounded by tacklezones...

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Yet they still manage to turn THAT into THIS:

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Then they play keep-away... And keep playing it! And already, turn 15 rolls around, and they're still doing it! They move the ball into the Chaos half, but then lose it! Chaos picks it up with a Beast, while another moves next to the endzone...

H5LU8oY.jpg


The Beast with the ball only has +AV on him, so even a 1d block would have good odds of taking him down... But instead, Skaven run away from him, and try to mark the lone Beast receiver. Chaos odds of scoring don't look too hot, but they dodge the receiver into the endzone, hand the ball to their AG4 Warrior, GFI ahead like no-one's business, and then make a medium pass to draw the game 1-1.

Now, that certainly seems unfair. Skaven were playing nicely, barring the whole start of the second half where they weren't sure where to go, so just ended up getting stuck... And then the very end. So, this is what I think should have happened in the above situation!

jJwnsJ7.jpg


A few easy dodges to get a 2d blitz on the ball-carrying Beast, what is there not to like about this?
 

Juriel

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4d -13 green bottles (stuartddj) vs Tabula Rasa Madhatters (chaosDwarf)
In the first half, CDs receive first, so Skaven spend all their rerolls on out-rageous defense attempts (including dodging into 2 tacklezones with a Stormvermin to get a 1d hit on the ball-carrier), which still do not prevent the score, and which mean they have none left for one-turning at the end of it.

In the second half, Skaven once again keep going for the one-turner even when it is not needed (just like in their previous matches), lose the ball as the result (just like in their previous matches), regain the ball, lose it again because they keep going for reroll-less GFIs, need to spend the last of their rerolls to only barely score...

By which time CDs steamroll them, to a 2-1 victory. These are the kind of results one-turning as plan A can get you, too!
 

Fallowheart

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I am lending my support to this thread with all my heart and soul. I've already seen 6 terrible mistakes that i've made myself in playing my skaven team (to the point where I thought that skaven vs high elf game was screenshots from my game... :eek:).

Teach me the Way of the Rat(tm) oh great sage!
 

TravelScrabble

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Great thread Juriel so much learning to do. Out of curiosity do you notice a drop in the number of players choosing whatever race you happen to be writing about in the OCC?
 

Juriel

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Great thread Juriel so much learning to do. Out of curiosity do you notice a drop in the number of players choosing whatever race you happen to be writing about in the OCC?
Necro numbers went up once I started, and went down by 6 when I stopped writing about them. You do the math, based on this huge sample. :p
 

TravelScrabble

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I have three theories. The first is that your irresistible charisma makes people want to be lampooned by you. The second is that people just love attention even at their own expense. The third is that people actually want to learn an appreciate the advice. Basic misanthropy eliminates the third theory which leads me to believe that the first must be true after a coin toss.

I'll be tracking the Skaven numbers - eventually we'll have enough for a solid conclusion.
 

Juriel

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The third is that people actually want to learn an appreciate the advice. Basic misanthropy eliminates the third theory which leads me to believe that the first must be true after a coin toss.
Having looked at div2 and div3 Necro games recently, they've gotten worse, if anything.

Still, I hope someone gleans something useful out of these...
 
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