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Tactics Stopping the one-turn scorer.

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Purgatory, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    First of all, sorry if this is in the wrong place.

    Okay, in my new league, my first game, to be played this weekend, is against the previous champion and his 2000+ TV Skavens. His team features two (2) Gutter Runners who have a +MV level. One of them has (if I'm not mistaken) Block, Dodge, Sprint, Sure Feet. 125 SPPs, a real monster, and it's a wonder he has lived this far.

    My team;

    WD - Strip Ball, Side Step, Jump Up
    WD - Guard, Stand Firm, -1MV
    Catcher - Block, Side Step
    Catcher - Block
    Catcher - Wrestle, Dauntless
    Thrower - Accurate, Safe Throw
    Lineperson - Guard, -1MV
    Lineperson - Block, Dodge
    Lineperson - Block
    Lineperson - Dodge
    Lineperson - Dodge
    Lineperson - Kick
    Lineperson - ST4

    5 RRs, 9 FF, 2 Cheers, 2 Coaches, 200k in the bank. Yeah I know, I'm new to this game :(

    Now, I need some help to set up against this thing, imagine something like the following;

    [PLAY-CREATOR]8436[/PLAY-CREATOR]

    Elves in yellow, Rats in blue. He often commits to one side when he is recieving, like the top play. Now, the front players in the wide-zone are assumingly my Side Steppers, the back ones of less importance. I usually put my Guard, Blodge and Block Linepeople on the LOS, and the four other positions are really of less importance. One of the elves in front is the WD with Stand Firm at least.

    His two players in the top wide zone will most likely be the Rat Ogre and the monster GR described above, and what he will do is simply to just blitz one of my players, it doesn't matter in which line, and then be off, with two 3+ Dodges, a 2+ dodge and three GFIs, with Dodge, Sure Feet and team RRs, that's not a very hard thing to do. Also, his thrower has Accurate and +AG, so it is very unlikely that he will need to use a team re-roll before he even starts Dodging/GFI:ing.

    I played a friendly against a novice player (even less so than myself) player today, with him using this amazing team, and the match ended 7-7. I made a single one-turn TD, via chain-pushing etc. and he made like five. One blitz, pick up the ball, hand it over and pass, run, dodge, run, done.

    I need some tips regarding how to set up against a tactic like this. I can usually score in two turns, and he as well, so we're bound to be in for a close match with loads of SPPs (nice!) but unless I can find a way to counter this tactic (aside from consistently rolling Perfect Defense or Blitz on the Kick-Off Table), I'm in for a loss.

    TL;DR - The Gutter Runner is giving me a head-ache, help me make the game fair :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  2. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    One suggestion I have would be to put some depth in your columns, each one right next to each other means they only cover 4 tacklezones deep in your half. A gap between them covers 5 or 6 depending on how spaced out they are. At the very least this would make sure you force him to roll more dodges and even with dodge and a re-roll he can only afford to fail 2 let alone considering the 3 go for its.

    There is a risk in terms of your front line getting hit more easily but not significantly different from the column formation tightly packed.
     
  3. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    You mean something like this?

    [PLAY-CREATOR]8437[/PLAY-CREATOR]

    I see your point, however - only blitzing one of the front players in the centre field allows him to get through with but a single 2+ dodge.

    I really, really hope that he stumbles at some point during the match, that gang-fould would be very, very sweet :p

    EDIT: Also, the trouble is that he has both Dodge and Sure Feet, so rolling 4 2+ rolls and a couple of 3+ (at best) is no big deal when you can re-roll three of them in total.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  4. Rav3n73

    Rav3n73 Member

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    Shame you have no tackle :(

    It would be great if his TV was 150,000 more than yours, I'd get a wizard and fry his Gutter Runners ass. ;)
     
  5. Doover

    Doover Member

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    Looks like his TR is higher then yours... so buy a Wizard and shoot that rat.
    Even a Stun should give you enough time to kick him deeper into the ground.
    Else if he uses him in defence as well try to get him there.
     
  6. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    I do agree the point about the risk of a blitz close to centre, but to be honest with any formation like this your centre is a gap if they break the line of scrimmage as there is a central corridor that your tackle zones can't cover in either formation.

    In effect you have to hope they get some push backs on your scrimmage line to avoid leaving the hole, so skills like Fend on your linemen may help there. The only other way to try and close the gap is move the second line a square inwards and that leaves the flanks weaker.
     
  7. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    That sounds like a good idea, but the problem is a) his team is only worth 100k more than mine, and b) the league we play in has banned Wizards -_-

    Any other ideas? :)
     
  8. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    Well, true, but I can't seem to think of a formation which would not allow him to do a one-turn TD.
     
  9. Rav3n73

    Rav3n73 Member

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    My only other suggestion is you put your two sidesteppers on the flanks, so at least you can position them after the blitz to maybe make him run one wide and so not be able to do the TTD?

    Lee
     
  10. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Yes. Tough one indeed.

    You will most likely not be able to stop his 1 turn TD if he fields that GR. One successfull block or push and all he will need is a simple dodge. So, no, not worth it to focus on that.

    "- Do not try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
    - What truth?
    - There is no spoon
    "

    Focus rather into fouling the bastard at the earliest opportunity. Make sure he gets the message that fielding that player will have consequences if he remains more than 1 turn.

    It is also a shame you have no tackle in such a high value team! The best way to foul him is to bring him down with your wrestle catcher, so aim for that.

    Now remember that with woodies you can also score quite fast, at least in 2 turns should be possible. So the result of the match is going to be a mater of timing and a bit of luck.

    "- There is no spoon?
    - Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself
    "

    Yes, you can also bend: be aware that your own catchers can score also in 1 turn if you keep one reroll in hand and successfully manage 2 chain pushes! Not sure if you know how to do this, but with wood elf catcher coming with sprint out of the box it is quite feasible, so you can respond with your own 1 turn score. Use the SideStep catcher for this as it will be that much more easier to move forward after a push. IF you do not know how to do a 1 turn chain push search for Coach´s excellent article about it in this very website. Coach actually published a 1 turn score chain push mechanism for a MA6 player!!!!! so overkill for your catcher... you only need 2 pushes, and with Side Step it should be relatively easy to do it.

    One possible way to plan the game could be as follows:

    Let him receive first and make sure that in his half you manage to at least draw the result, 1-1, or 2-2 etc by scoring in the last turn eithr by stalling until that last turn or by your own 1 turn TD with 2 chain pushes. If Nuffle allows you to get a better result than a draw in his half even better.

    Once in your own half (the second one) chances are that KO's and maybe some injuries have forced him to field the 1 turn scorer(s). If that is the case then stall your own TD and grind him, foul the 1 turn scorers at every decent opportunity while the ball is protected in the back field. Then score as late as possible or even in your last turn. That will leave him only with 1 turn to obtain a draw as best result for him, and hopefully you have managed to KO or worst their 1 turn scorers before getting there as you have had the whole match to try and accomplish it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  11. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    Thanks a lot for the advice! And yes, the lack of tackle is frustrating, and I have no less than three players who are only 2 SPPs away from a level (the Guard/Stand Firm WD and the Wrestle Catcher) and they are both in for Tackle after this game. My hope was to be paired up with anyone else but the Skaven player in the first round and thus have some Tackle in the team by the time we were up, but no... :skull::skull:

    EDIT: And yes, I did score a one-turn TD with one of my catchers in the practice game agains the novice player, through chain-pushes. It is certainly possible :)
     
  12. biLLy

    biLLy Member

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    I suffered 1TD once a lot time ago, and since then, I have been thinking the best way to fight against a 1TD scorer is something like this:

    [PLAY-CREATOR]8439[/PLAY-CREATOR]

    You can move the last LM to cover the most important player you have, that is not important.

    The most important thing is to place as much players as you can covering a whole line, placing TZ in all the line.

    This is the main idea, you can place this line more close to your endzone, making this way much more difficult for him to blitz your line and make a hole for the scorer, but you will then open your defense for a very possible 2nd turn TD.

    Overall, you can use also the clasical zigurat like this:
    [PLAY-CREATOR]8440[/PLAY-CREATOR]

    Of course the lines could be 1-2 squares deeper (I usually use 1 square deeper), that is depending on your taste, I wouldnt go so much back just to optimize the TZing.

    The best way also to improve these two configs are that sideliners (WDs in this case) have Side Step or Stand Firm, to prevent crowd surfing, and if you have many Tackles just spare them in the line to maximize its use.

    To conlcude, just consider that if you make a defense very orientated in preventing a 1TTD you will probably be gimping your defense, and it is quite normal that they will manage to do a 2nd turn TD, or maybe a 3rd one...

    The way I would fight this game would be classical zigurat at starting, try to kick if you can, fight as much as you can to score 1-1 in your 8th turn, and then place the whole line 1 square over your endzone, that way you will have more chances not being blitzed. Then waste all your turn doing hurt in his team and score at the last turn.

    While this is the tactic, I would be really tempted in starting a TD fest, try to end the match in 5-6 or something like that :D I always like spp fest matches!!

    Overall, have fun and enjoy your match, update the link telling us how went your match. Best luck.
     
  13. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    The first one is probably safer, although it is only really applicable on turn 8. However, it should suffice, thanks a lot! :) I think the defensive line would be put even further back, one line ahead of the end zone (to force a last 2+ dodge) so that the only players who can reach mine are his other MV10 Gutter Runner, and he can at best muster a 1D block against my team. I'm not sure if he is the Wrestle/Dauntless one, but all the same it is at best a 1D:er.

    The second one seems about as effective as mine, blitzing one of the far-right or far-left players in the widezones would leave me open to him doing a TD, he can use his Rat Ogre for this and still get 2D, and he also has some disgusting stuff like Storm Vermins with Guard, one of them with S4 etc.
     
  14. biLLy

    biLLy Member

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    Yeah, place that line 1 square ahead your endzone, not ahead.

    Just admit you will have to suffer 1turn TDs, now you have to "minimize" these TDs, and then you will have to score also... Hard match, but sure you will get a bunch of spps.
     
  15. Runi

    Runi Member

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    No, actually two squares from the end zone is better. Otherwise he will have one less dodge. But if it's two, three or even four doesn't really matter. There are usually no players who are fast and strong enough at the same time to blitz you that far back.
     
  16. Creamster

    Creamster Member

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    Well a way to stop his 13 MV 4Ag player from getting a one turn TD is to put all of you men on the line. If hes marked by one player then he has a 2/3 chance of the catch/hand-off as long as your still marking him. Put your blodgers/S4/Sidestep/Standfirm pieces on the edges as he would most likely be placed here and chances are he will still have to dodge anyways. Any extra players should be placed a few squares behind players to help stop any chain pushes by making tackle zones or assists.

    It will be difficult but preventing the player getting the ball is no1 priority. Although the above will allow free hits on your players but I would risk it turn 16 and the score is 2-2....
     
  17. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    Just got home from the game, and I lost 4-2, partly due to some bad play on my part and some bad rolls (rolling :skull::skull: twice in one turn was hilariously bad).

    No one-turn score though :)