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Sturmwald Stormchasers - Embracing AG4 (OCC)

Discussion in 'Team Blogs' started by Gallows Bait, Oct 6, 2013.

  1. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    Against slower teams it can lead to a steal if they fluff the pickup and gives you a chance to stop the cage forming effectively. Also it puts less pressure on you to stall for a full 8 turns when stalling, since it makes it very hard for slow teams to score in 2-3. Its also good for preventing one turners, and the combination of short kick plus blitz/fluffed pickup against quicker teams, even though It doesn't come up very often, is potentially game winning when it does.
     
  2. pupkinus

    pupkinus Member

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    I beg to differ. If your opponent is a bash team and didn't commit enough players to form a cage downfield, on your first turn you can attempt to place some of your players between the BC (and his cover) and the main part of his team near the LOS. This will force your opponent to either commit more player from the center to the back (so they have more space to cover against you, with a cage) or this will force him to try some risky stuff like passing, handoffs etc. It can fail and will sometimes fail, offering you the possibility to score on defense. Also, if your opponent botches the pickup rolls, you have a nice chance to score or at least make him waste several turns for protecting/recovering/securing the ball.

    I am not an experienced coach by any means, but I've found kick to be a big problem when playing against agility teams with my Dwarfs and using kick to be great when playing with my hielfs against bash teams. You play woodies, they are very fast and can fully exploit a good kick.

    PS: You can also take a page out of skavens' playbook, give your second or third catcher Stripball and see your opponents weep.
     
  3. 20phoenix

    20phoenix Well-Known Member

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    While I agree kick is a great skill I try to keep it off the linos. I like it on the defensive thrower as he is unlikely to end up on the los whereas linos inevitably have to do their time there.
     
  4. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    On the catcher Wrestle would be a normal pick after your first Block one, but if you are facing snotlings next there are two reasons to chosee Block over Wrestle:

    - Snots have Dodge, Wrestle wont hurt them, you make the maths. Block is better.
    - Ogre teams foul. A lot, if their coach is half decent. Wrestle is just calling for it unless you plan on NOT using it if your opponent gets a "both down".

    On the linos, yeh, Dodge also would be first pick after 4 blodge pieces in the team no doubt. But Kick is fundamental for WE I d say, many reasons, but the favourites are:

    - Short kicks: Againts agility teams that have no trouble retrieving and moving up deep kicks. This way you threaten the ball from turn 1. Also, against some AG3 or worst teams you may want to use short kick sometimes if you want to threaten soon the ball rather than later for whatever reason. Excellent to exploit a Blitz! kick off event.
    - Deep kicks: Fundamental when you are for example half way a half or at the end of it. A deep kick can often delay your opponents one turn or more in scoring, it can be the difference between a win and a draw. Deep kicks also can be very helpful against bash early in a drive if the ball carrier gets isolated. It can give you an opportunity to harass the ball before the cage forms.
    - Helps you maximize the value of asymetric set ups.

    Plus... a deep kick minimizes the chances of TTM 1 turners, If you are playing Ogres next remember snots move is just 5 and the TTM is considered as the Pass action of the turn limiting the ball move to hand offs. :D Kick is invaluable against TTM TD. Be assured your kicker will be target No1 in their list (ok, maybe No2 because everyone hates WD).
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  5. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Thanks for the feedback everyone, you make an interesting point on the catcher Viajero - it might pay off in giving me better scoring threats at this stage of my team development also, especially with a Strip Ball Wardancer to help defend with.

    I'd have to hope that I don't lose anyone expensive along the way if I'm going to save up for a third catcher though. :D
     
  6. Everblue

    Everblue Active Member

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    One thing I would definitely NOT do is base my development plan solely on your next opponent. Especially when that's an Ogre team :)
     
  7. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Personally I put wrestle on my first catcher, since that one is the closest one to wrestle+strip ball.
     
  8. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    So my choices in the end have been as follows:

    Thrower - Leader
    Catcher - Wrestle
    Lineman - Kick
    Lineman - Dodge

    Tomorrow I face Captpir8 and his Ogre team Bleeds United. Right now, with a couple of concessions he is short on cash and only has a 12 player roster, but I'm giving away a lot in inducements, so I could face anything upto a Wizard, or more likely a Babe and Bribe.

    He has two skilled Snotlings, one with Diving Tackle, and one who took a double and went for Leader (huh?).

    The downside is.. 5 Ogres on the roster now. Luckily no skill increases, but all the same that's a lot of MB and ST5 that I really don't want to be marking or letting hit me.

    With 1 re-roll and now a Leader, I'll be going in with re-rolls for the first time, which is nice, but only 40k in spare cash means I can't afford to be complacent and really need my positionals to survive.
     
  9. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    So I came into this game quite keen to pick up some points, but fearful of the cost it could take from my team if those Ogres got hits in.

    I took the first defense and set up in a flexible formation, except I forgot to factor in his choices of inducements - an extra Snotling and Bomber Dribblesnot.

    Bomber went to work on T1 with an excellent throw that took advantage of my bunched formation, including badly hurting my rookie Wardancer.

    I followed up with gem with a defense that struggled to stop his amazingly indestructible Snotlings and was made worse by my twice forgetting which of his Snotlings had Diving Tackle. In the end he took the first available chance and ran in an early touchdown.

    Luckily, this got Bomber sent off, which improved my situation. I was able to use my pace to score with relative ease, screening as I change direction and ran for safety. I decided to take a risk on T7, knowing he couldn't blitz me, but could mark me with 2GFI, if I held back from the end zone by a single square. I took the risk to avoid him getting the chance for a 1TTD using TTM. My luck held out and I was able to make the 2+ dodge (with RR).

    Interestingly it did show me that Captpir8 didn't understand the impact of Titchy, as he seemed convinced he'd been forcing me to make 3+ rolls into TZ, when Titchy means the modifier doesn't happen.

    In the second half I tried to take a slower pace and moved along the sideline. The Ogres pressed hard, breaking through to mark my Thrower with the ball. I then failed the 2+ dodge to get clear and change to the other wing, which caused a massive scrum for the ball for most of the half, and it did look very much like I was going to lose for a while. Luckily I was able to recover, helped by a pick up in a TZ, and was able to run it in on T16 to make it 2-1.

    His final turn gave him hope of a TTM touchdown again, but my choice of Kick on the Lineman from last week paid off with a good kick, and nuffle gave me a Blitz kick off to work with too. I decided to make doubly sure by attempting to leap into position to blitz the Snotling waiting to be thrown, but it failed. A both down on a block ended his plan in any case, leaving me with a 2-1 win, despite my poor play.

    Only one skill up, being my -MA thrower picking up a pass.

    One of my Linemen and my Wrestle catcher are now at 13spp as well, so hopefully more skills aren't too far off.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Congratz GB! Surviving a game with Ogres with no perma cas makes the result even better!
     
  11. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Well Thursday night saw me face the bottom of the table Human team of the Fumblin' Farmhands, coached by Wandering Igor.

    The first half saw me on defense and quite quickly my rookie Wardancer was badly hurt, which she keeps doing (hence being stuck as a rookie), but with some focus on the ball I was able to pressure whilst slowing his advance and eventually stole the ball for an opening touchdown and a 1-0 lead at half time.

    The second half I advanced along the flank, but decided to risk stalling for a turn. Unfortunately this allowed him to pressure me more than I expected and I was forced to try and dodge clear and hand off in a TZ, which failed (even as a 3+ with RR). The dropped ball was soon knocked into the crowd and thrown across to the opposite side of the pitch.

    With my speed I was able to, I thought, screen the ball, but his thrower managed 2 GFI for the pick up and attempted the throw, which scattered, fortunately for me.

    With some Elf BS I managed to just reach the ball with my Wrestle catcher and threw it up to one of my Throwers (4+). From there I was able to blitz another player clear for the hand off and touchdown to secure my lead at 2-0.

    The final kick off gave me another unexpected steal and saw me end with a 3-0 victory. Only one injury, my Badly Hurt Wardancer, but with my Wrestle Catcher stealing the MVP he is the only skill increase (a normal roll). I also killed one of the Human Blitzers to put me in a dominating lead for the Executioner competition.

    [​IMG]

    So 3 wins in 3 weeks sees me up to 3rd place on 12 points and a 4-0-2 record. My -MA Thrower is still the only casualty and 70k in winnings sees me in position to buy a second re-roll. I'm leaning toward Dauntless on my Wrestle Catcher, as my Wardancer has Strip Ball and I'm facing Dwarves next who have two Sure Hands runners to do all the carrying as it is.

    So, the downside is that next week I get to face Dwarves with both a Mighty Blow blitzer and Mighty Blow trollslayer, so it is looking like it will be a painful one.
     
  12. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Good one GB!

    Dauntless in that Wrestle catcher seems reasonable indeed. That new RR will be needed against tackle spammed Dwarves next!

    As for 2 MB being scary... meh, as usual armor rolls are a lottery, so take the games as they come. Actually a Block spammed team, MB or not, is scary enough already. But 2 MB does not sound too outrageous in principle specially if that TS or Blitzer do not have tackle yet (do they?). Sometimes a game against non MB teams can be even bloodier. Whats the TV difference? A bench or babes would be perfect here.

    Aim to get that Blitzer or TS down if you can without sacrificing your position, then mark them while on the ground with a lino to keep them out of the action. Presume he does not have a Deathroller? If he does not then these is the kind of games where a Block Tree may be worth its weight in gold. Aim to tie up 2 of his pieces at a time with the Tree (those MB pieces in priority!). Dont mark more than 2 if you can avoid it, otherwise he only needs 2 more pieces for a 2D. Watch out for Dauntless... on the tree it is a 4+ roll, it is not easy, but not crazy hard either. Make sure your SF is not set on automatic for the Frenzy push followthrough.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  13. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Thanks for the advice Viajero.

    With the Dauntless added to the Catcher and the re-roll bought, I'm sat at 1380 TV.

    At the moment the Dwarves are as follows:

    2 Blitzers (one MB, one rookie)
    2 Troll Slayers (one MB, one rookie)
    2 Runners (both rookie, one niggled)
    7 Blockers (two Guard, one pending skill, one -MA)

    13 player roster, with 3 RR and Apoth he's at TV 1330 with the pending skill, so is likely to be 1350, which will mean no inducements on either side.

    With 2 Guards (possibly 3) and 2 Mighty Blow (or 3 if not guard perhaps) and a bench, he will be in a position to bash and foul.

    But he doesn't have the Deathroller, so only his Troll Slayers come close on the Tree, but he does have Guards to help out.

    Right now I'm thinking it's time for lots of classic Elf play and work with my speed to stay out of contact, but that plan often doesn't go well, so I will have to see how I cope.
     
  14. Kaz

    Kaz Active Member

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    If he gets obsessed with taking down the tree (as many coaches do) that will be a good thing for you as you'll have TONS of room to just run around and screen. If not, I'd plow that tree (at full speed!) into as many of them as you can to keep them occupied. When you receive you should be able to stall out a pretty long time fairly easily before you have to score. Just spread out, screen and keep as many options open as you can.

    Defense may be a pain in the butt but IIRC you have a kicker now? A nice deep kick and a swarm of elves can make it REALLY difficult for them to get going. And the Runners don't have block yet so a leap in desperate times is certainly viable. I just want to see you get the 'Dead Dwarf' award :D
     
  15. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Indeed, but you dont want to make your opponent´s life any easier than it should be to take the Tree down. It can take a while until he gets back up! And against dwarves above all else (pun intended) you need the tree standing.

    That is why I usually advocate to only seek to mark at most two ST3 pieces or one ST4 with it (if your opponent has big guys then you may not have much choice). This means your opponent would need three (3!!!) freaking extra pieces as support for a 2D (remember a 1D is not really good enough anymore since GB´s awesome Tree has Block. That d mean that he would have "used up" 4 pieces for that action (the 3 extra assists and the one doing the block) Your opponent will probably try a -2D or a 1D anyways at the end of his turn, specially if it is the AG2 TS being marked, so beware).

    As Kaz says, if he wants to commit to the Tree down that way, fine. That d mean you can probably run and screen the ball deep in his half freely or maybe blitz his now more exposed ball carrier.

    Also, look at the tiles around the Tree and see where your opponent would have to place assists for a 2D, then try to position in a way that you deny those tiles by virtue of being marked. That usually means a couple of pieces not too far around escorting the Tree for as long as the Tree is in the thick of the action and needed (yes, even Trees need some degree of protection... help the Tree to help you! :p). Keep constant tabs of where his 2 Guard players are and do not lose them from sight so to confirm if they can reach or not those tiles etc. Actually keeping tabs on where the 2 Guard pieces are should be useful for any situation, not just about the Tree... :p
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  16. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Well it was a surprising game. My opponent it seems was much newer to the game than I had realised and it really became obvious from the start. His formation was very aggressive, with very little cover in the back field. As a result, when a blitz kick off came, combined with my deep kick, I was in position to pressure right away.

    He did counter, and was able to KO my Wardancer, but my Catcher proved to be a champion. With the Runner unskilled I risked a 2 die against blitz and on the re-roll it came up :bothdown::bothdown: not only that but it killed the poor runner (Dead apoth Dead as well), things were not looking good for my opponent, the ball bounced clear and suddenly I was picking up and taking a 1-0 lead and giving me the spp to skill my Catcher.

    The rest of the first half was much more of a struggle to defend. I took 3 KOs in quick succession followed by skulls when blitzing the exposed ball carrier and failed 2+ dodges. But I was saved by my opponent's inexperience as he left the ball carrier exposed to the point that he stopped one square short of the end zone (resisting the chance to gfi with no rr to score), but failed to screen or cage significantly and was left exposed by a turnover from a slightly greedy 1 die block. The speed of my catchers allowed me to wrestle him down and clear the ball to finish the first half with a 1-0 lead.

    In the second half I was again left seeing an inexperienced opponent, how positioned too far forward and with flanks I could get around, so I was able to make a quick play for a commanding lead and to finally skill my second Wardancer.

    On the next defense I was again able to sack the ball carrier. Although better defended this time, he was still only screening and not caging. This time I was able to pass it forward to skill one of my linemen with the touchdown, to make it a 3-0 lead.

    The final kick off saw him make a more successful drive and a couple of bad rolls left me unable to pursue, allowing him a consolation touchdown for a final score of 3-1. He also managed his first casualty (the other 7 taken off the pitch were all KOs) and my Kick lineman will MNG.

    Final result was 70k winnings to bring me up to 150k and the MVP going to my Strip Ball Wardancer brought me up to 4 skill ups from the match.

    My rookie Lineman doubled for Guard.

    My Strip Ball Wardancer got a normal for Tackle.

    My Block Catcher got a normal for Sidestep.

    My rookie Wardancer got a normal for Sidestep. I am considering Frenzy or Grab, but decided in either case I wanted Sidestep first in order to avoid getting into trouble on the sidelines and to open up her scoring options a little.

    All in all, that means 4 wins in a row and 2nd place in the table on 5-0-2.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    A really tough game for MD8, but I knew facing the High Elves would be difficult, especially when they had two Guards, but life made it harder.

    With their star catcher having gained Dodge and NoS I knew it would be difficult to stop him scoring if I failed to knock him down, and at the first kick off the High Elves played as I expected, rushing the catchers through to the back. I failed my blitz, leaving the NoS catcher standing and a T2 TD followed.

    But then my daughter woke up crying and being sick and I rushed away from the computer. When I came back I pressed the wrong button, bringing up the FPS/debug window and couldn't close it or type in chat, so I was forced to abandon. After a fraught half hour or so where my opponent disappeared offline and I wondered if I'd get a reset or an admin loss, we kicked off again.

    This time I stalled the High Elves for a little longer, but they still pressed for a quick early TD, which gave me plenty of time to level it to 1-1 for half time, aided by some excellent KO wake up rolls.

    In the second half I was slightly outnumbered and my opponent played boldly, pressuring my formation into the sideline, I attempted to use my speed to rush my catcher away to the opposite flank with the ball. Unfortunately I rolled a double 1 on the first GFI, dropping the ball and it bounced back one vital square, allowing the High Elf catcher to make 2 GFI into range to pick it up and I was unable to challenge for the ball sufficiently to prevent going 2-1 down.

    Which, ultimately was how the game ended.

    [​IMG]

    All in all not a terrible game, I felt I played a little weak, but my team survived and I managed a kill, keeping me in the lead for the Executioner award, no skill ups to report however.


    On the plus side, my MD9 opponent appears unlikely to be able to play, so I may yet gain another vital win, which would help me keep in the top 3, even if first place is likely now beyond me.
     
  18. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Good season overall I d say GB, so congrats!

    Keep in mind this is AV7 so going up the Divs means you ll likely see a constant loss of key players.

    The key to remember is that WE excel at rebuilding and can be competitive out of the box. That is "their thing". Specially if they can access 150+ inducements when they are down in players.

    Also, something that I believe works well is to plan your games overall with a goal in mind to maximize the number of players you have available and on the pitch at any one time (decent bench, helping the Tree to help you, mercs, babes etc). All else being equal and assuming average 2D luck, if elves can maintain numbers I think in general they tend to win.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  19. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    MD9 ended with an admin draw due to scheduling clashes (largely because my opponent only proposed one time in the middle of the day, which with kids was impossible for me).

    From this, I got a skill up on my last rookie lineman (and last rookie player at all in fact). Who promptly rolled an 11.

    So now the big question. Do you take +AG on a rookie Lineman with AV7 and no defensive skills?

    Smaller question - with 220k in the bank and a whopping 1470+ TV after 9 games (1510 if I take the AG), do I try to pick up a bit of a bench or not?
     
  20. Everblue

    Everblue Active Member

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    I would take the AG. It's such a precious thing on an elf team and opens up so many different avenues of play.

    Then power him to 31SPP and wrodge.