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Rules Taking Root and Piling On

Discussion in 'General Blood Bowl News and Discussion' started by illLich, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. illLich

    illLich Member

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    can tree use grab+piling on combo while standing under roots?
    As far as i know it's working in cyanide BB.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2011
  2. Mico Selva

    Mico Selva Active Member

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    According to Take Root skill description, You can't use Piling On while rooted:

     
  3. illLich

    illLich Member

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    it's a bit strange discription i think. For example can i use wrestle then?
     
  4. Mico Selva

    Mico Selva Active Member

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    Apparently not, and Diving Tackle too is not allowed, if I understand correctly.
     
  5. illLich

    illLich Member

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    and btw what about jump up and ms 2? need tree with jump up roll 4+ to stand up?
     
  6. Mico Selva

    Mico Selva Active Member

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    No, You can stand up for free then, unless You try to use Jump Up to stand up and Block, then You have to make an Agility roll with a +2 modifier (4+).
     
  7. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    I'm pretty sure you can still use Wrestle, I'd be surprised to see a Treeman with Wrestle though.
     
  8. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Hmm.. the wording of the rules would imply that you can't use wrestle - on the other hand, if you don't have wrestle you'd go down involuntarily, so wrestle should be usable to protect you from armor break rolls and turnovers.

    But yes, given that most trees have problems standing up and need to roll doubles to get to pick block or wrestle.. most will probably pick block. Should probably, even. ;)
     
  9. Mico Selva

    Mico Selva Active Member

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    Yes, Coach and Nikolai are right. The fact that without Wrestle a Treeman would go down anyway has somehow eluded me. My mistake.
     
  10. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    I've thought the same up until now, so it's not as if you are unique :D
     
  11. Darkson

    Darkson Member

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    You could NOT use Wrestle, because the Take Root specifically states:
    Whilst Wrestle says:
    Therefore disallowing it's use.
    Doesn't matter whether it "should be usable to protect you from armor break rolls and turnovers", it isn't, and that's a deliberate way of making Big Guys a choice if you take them or not, a design goal.


    Whether the PC game follows the correct rules I've no idea though.
     
  12. Darkson

    Darkson Member

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    It's not a strange description at all - it's very simple.

    Does using skill X make me be Placed Prone for any reason?
    If the answer is "yes", then a Treeman affected by Take Root cannot use it at that time.
     
  13. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    Thanks for the clarification, I'd normally check the rulebook but like I said, I can't see a Treeman taking Wrestle in the first place...
     
  14. illLich

    illLich Member

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    hmmm and why then jump up allow not to roll 4+? if using just rule book we still need to role.
     
  15. Narly Bird

    Narly Bird Well-Known Member

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    Your not the only one Illich. I also find the description a bit confusing. :confused:

    As for your other question, the rules for stand up say "If the player has less than three squares of movement, he must roll 4+ to stand up". There are no if's or but's in this statement. It is a black and white rule. The jump up rule states "If the player declares any action other than a Block action he may stand up for free without paying the 3 squares of movement".

    These 2 statements obviously contradict each other. Because the Stand Up rules make no mention of jump up and the Stand Up rule is a categorical statement that the player "must roll 4+ to stand up". There are no exceptions mentioned.

    If i were to read these rules as they are written, i would assume that for a Treeman I must make a 4+ roll to stand up (no matter what). If i have Jump up skill, i can then still use my full movement (2 square + 2 gfi) assuming i pass the 4+ roll.

    The rules haven't been interpreted this way and i think that they are not clearly written. If they are interpreted exactly as they are written, i think it should work as i say above.
     
  16. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Logically, reading it that way, Jump Up doesn't negate the act of standing up, only the movement cost associated to it (plus additional rules around being able to attempt to block). Which would mean that you still roll for a MV2 player to stand.

    I think you'd be a fool to waste a double on Jump Up though, regardless of interpretation. :D
     
  17. Mico Selva

    Mico Selva Active Member

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    Thanks for the clarification on Wrestle, Darkson.

    As for the Jump Up with less than 2 MA, I've always though this skill was one of the remedies for rolling 4+ to stand up (actually, the only one...). Since You don't use the 3 points of movement to stand up, You don't need to have them, right?
    The wording of the rules contraditcs intuition and if this was the intent of rulemakers, one could argue its merit.

    There is a similar situation with Bombardier and Jump Up. Bombardier can not stand up before throwing the bomb (because he needs time to light the fuse - or so the skill description says), even if he has Jump Up, which allows him to stand up for free. And reasonably, he should be able to throw the bomb after jumping up, since he has his full movement available.
     
  18. Darkson

    Darkson Member

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    http://www.talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32780
     
  19. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Except... that wasn't how they ended up wording it.

    Reads exactly like the movement penalty was the only intention.
     
  20. Darkson

    Darkson Member

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    Hey, don't shot the messenger - I'm just passing on the intentions of the guy that wrote the rules.