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Skaven team advice

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by The Dude, May 23, 2017.

  1. The Dude

    The Dude Member

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    Got a skaven team in MM which is shaping up nicely and a couple questions.

    3 rr, 1 apo, elf turf, 10 ff 140k treas at 1650 tv

    2 Stormvermin with Claw/MB
    Gutters with wrestle (level up) ;wrestle strip dauntless; block ss dt; block +mv sprint.
    Extra arms Thrower
    guard, guard (-mv), block, level pending and 2 rookie line rats.

    Block thrower just died he was going to get tackle/kick but not sure if I need another thrower or just a linerat at this stage? (I like 14 players if I can manage it 'safely')

    Wrestle gutter rolled normal maybe I just take tackle first to finally have some although dauntless probably makes him more useful right now.

    Rookie linerat is probably going wrestle (since both guards will try for block) although kick would be good.. plan was to give it to dead 2nd thrower along with leader but think I have enough guys to protect atm to bother with that plan..

    Any thoughts on future development paths or team build? Kick, tackle... duh :p

    Still getting the hang of rats, no team quite like them knowing when to rush in and when to form up and stay alive a bit longer isn't easy :)
     
  2. Borke

    Borke Well-Known Member

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    When I started reading the positionals you have, I thought that's basically a wish list. Turns out it's your actual team :eek:

    I don't think Skaven need a second Thrower, just focus on developing the one you have. Just two more levels (Block, Accurate), and you have yourself a very solid ball carrier, who will have plenty of outlets to deliver the ball to. I probably wouldn't run him on defense, if I can help it (at least until he has Block).

    Which means that you have quite a lot of room on your defense team, with Juan Turner and the Thrower sitting out. Three Gunners, two Stormvermin, and a bunch of Linerats. To me that screams: Dirty Player! This is especially useful since you don't run a Rogre, so you have very light TV and will find it rather easy to induce a bribe.

    As for the leveled Gunner, I'm not as sure. Tackle sounds reasonable, as you have none at the moment. But this may be more of a question for the real experts ;)
     
  3. slanesh

    slanesh Active Member

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    I'll get rid of the thrower...you can buy a new 1 if you insist on having 1 thrower, and get him block + accurate or pray for +agi...but a gutter is just better doing his job imo.

    All your linos are going to die, don't expect to get 2 lvl ups on your linerats...let me rephrase that... try not to get any lvl up on your linos at all.

    You should aim to get a 14-15 roster (4gutters, 2SV) + lino rats(1-2 dirty players and 1 kicker).

    Perfect rat team for me:
    1-2 killers (claw, mb, po, tackle)
    1 1turner (+mv, sprint,block) <- ideal twoheads or +AGI
    1 ball retriever (block, leap, surehands) <-ideal +AGI and Bighand
    1 sacker (wrestle, tackle, stripball, leap) <- ideal +AGI
    1 kicker
    1-2 Dirtyplayers

    Good luck with your team.
     
  4. The Dude

    The Dude Member

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    Yeah I nearly always play the 1 turner on defence anyway. Usually take babes/wiz/apos with inducements... wiz babes wins games :p
     
  5. Jav

    Jav Active Member

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    If you don't already have kick then kick is your linerat priority.

    I would go dauntless on the gutter. He already has wrestle, and its not generally easy to get two assists for your ball popper gutters.

    Personally I like having a thrower, and extra arms is my favorite double. He picks up better than a gutter, and it frees you up to space your gutters out. If you only play the ball with a gutter then it can limit you if you lose one early in a match.
     
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  6. amobokoboko

    amobokoboko New Member

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    Who is the go-to person when it comes to Skaven play. I'm really struggling with my team ( rookiecoach) and could use some advice. I kno what I'm doing wrong but old habits die slow
     
  7. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

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    @Jav plays lotsa rats and @notorious noob is a very good skaven coach (and actually not bad at BB all round really ...). Is there a specific thing you need help wit or more general tips?
     
  8. sbr32

    sbr32 Well-Known Member

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  9. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
  10. amobokoboko

    amobokoboko New Member

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    Well, I re-discovered the game late November last year and got introduced to it via some of the guys with whom I play league. They gave me a couple of initiation trials but I always played with a different team. Before the league started they advised me to play orc or skaven, looking at the way I play. As we already had 1/3 teams being orcs I decided to play / try skaven to add some diversity in the mix.

    I would describe my coaching as throw and rush. I also try to get 1 or 2 GR as deep as possible, pick up the ball, try to get some CP and score fast. Not the best thing to do when you have a starplayer with secret weapon. But lessons learned :). Secondly the main issue is the low AV, I have injuries and kills quiet often, which is normal for this team, it's just a very bitter pill that it are always the skilled players who go out. E.G. GR + AG after game 2, dies in Game 3; H1T2, didn't even touch the ball.

    This results in the TV being quiet low, while other teams are increasing.

    I tend to put focus on the other players as well to give them mvp but for now the dice are picking the throwers or GR.

    It would be nice if somebody could give me more in depth advice on how to optimize my team.
    Cheers
     
  11. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    Ok Skaven is all about the positionals. You want one linerat with kick and one with dp but that's all you need (and eventually you can get kick on the thrower instead).

    The key players to level are your Stormvermin. You want one utility SV with guard and maybe grab, mb sf and one killer who needs a double for claw. Having at least one claw vermin is very important for Skaven and you might want to recycle killers until you get that double. Generally I get mb first for all SV to help them level though with TT MVP rules you could go guard then mb on one (but only if the other already has claw).

    The gutters should level up easily and want defensive skills. Two blodgestep and two with sacking skills (wrestle, dauntless, tackle, leap, strip) is standard and good. Two heads is my favourite double on a wrestle and guard on a blodgestep.

    If you build this way and avoid a rat ogre you should often have inducements. Wizards are lethal if your league allows them. If not you want loner line rats for a bench and maybe bribe or extra app.

    Plan on defense is not to try to stop the score but rather to use speed to gang up on small groups of players and use claw and fouls to get CAS. You'll take cas too if course but with a bit of luck you can stay close on numbers. At some point you have hopefully divided the offense and can switch all your team to attacking the cage and get the sack or force the early score.

    Offense is easy with Skaven as they are the second or third best offensive team in the game imo. The trick is not scoring too quickly. Personally I dislike sending gutters into the back field since they are so fragile and you only have 4. I prefer a running cage that goes from side to side faster than any other team can keep up with and eventually up a sideline to score turn 6+.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  12. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

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    Great stuff
     
  13. amobokoboko

    amobokoboko New Member

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    thnx for your help buddy.
    My GR are developing well, the Blitzers not. Everytime they block or blitz they don't get any XP ( blame the dice) giving a pass or scoring is a no go. Even MVP is a disaster. I took me 6 games to give one vermin mvp and he didn't survive the next game.
     
  14. Ravers

    Ravers Well-Known Member

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    Must admit I am finding Skaven impossible to play at the minute. Inspired by @TravelScrabble 's post I rolled a new rat team and played COL. Lost the toss and had to receive vs Orcs. Their turn 1 saw a linerat killed and an SV injured. My T1 I failed a GFI then a 3 plus dodge with RR. Their turn 2 another linerat injured. 3 players down after 1 and a half turns. Like what's the point..Last time I tried skaven I came up vs Dwarves and the same thing happened but worse!
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
  15. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    I forgot to mention that on starting skaven I do actually like the Rogre, I think he gives them more bite and durability and you can make do with 2 rr.
     
  16. amobokoboko

    amobokoboko New Member

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    I will drop the experts a Pm tonight
     
  17. Jav

    Jav Active Member

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    TravelScrabble pretty much described my approach. That's pretty much how I play defense. If we're talking low TV and the other team doesn't really have tackle or killers I might play defense straight up. But normally my priority works like this:

    1. If I can get to the ball before he forms in a cage I will go all out. Pop a hole and get as many people into their backfield and try to separate their ball carrier from their offensive line. This works really well against new coaches or if your opponent has some bad luck (AG3 failed pickup, only one player back, etc.).

    2. If I don't get to the ball first, or pressure him into a mistake it's all about survival. The last thing you want to do as skaven is try to form a column defense and end up with all your players marked in a scrum. Your linerats can't disengage reliably and they squish quick.

    At this point having a killer Stormvermin is key. If your opponent formed a cage my priority now is to try to cutoff a few players (the better players if possible), and use your number advantage to hopefully get a few casualties. He has to keep a decent cage to remain safe, so that mostly takes 5 people out of the fight. The key is placement, since a good coach with a bash team won't be in a rush to score, and they will try to form the two sides of the team back together. But if you can get a few casualties, or if they split the cage and only send a few people back to the scrum you might be able to peel off a few players and pop the ball out.

    3. If both 1 and 2 fail, score a one turn touchdown if possible :)
     
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  18. chakkal2001

    chakkal2001 Active Member

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    Skaven is the ultimate 'EMBRACE THE BULLSHIT' team. AV7 and AG3 on linerats makes them nothing else than fooders, as everyone pointed out is the positionals where the bacon is. The good stuff is, the gutter runners are so amazing that you only need them to score (like, literally, I score with only 5 rats receiving against a full team, requires a bit of luck - not perfect defense or blitz and somewhat good kick - but if some team can do it well, is Skaven and elves of course).

    Fouling and killer vermins are your friends, but don't expect to win any attrition battle. Their job is only to make the opponent thing twice about leaving important players exposed and therefore keep him humble, nothing else. NEVER rely on numbers advantage, it's not gonna work. If it happens it's a bonus.

    Defense is all about knowing when to go all out balls to the wall or drop it out and survive. A lot of people mention the double column elf defense yada yada as with AV7 you don't want to stay in contact etc... but sadly these are only urban legends and things people say on forums to look cool. Reality is, with AG3 in most of the team you aren't forming columns reliably and you will fail spectacularly if you try. Truth is, with Skaven you wanna stop the cage from forming at all and steal and score quick, if a cage forms and the enemy team is together, you are gonna have a bad time.

    Linerats-wise, there are basically two approaches to use them... at low TV when block is not seen in masse in all teams, the tactic 'throw bodies at their rerolls' can and do works sometimes. At higher TVs where everyone has block, your best bet is LEAVE LINERATS ON THE GROUND. Of course that's if they shouldn't be sacrificed to tie players to stop cage from forming or harass the ball, etc

    Finally, since scoring with them is so easy, most of the times you only need a defensive touch down and you pretty much got it. Most of my wins as Skaven come from early steal and score (always starts defending if possible, should go without saying), and then, literally, running away with all my team to keep em out of any fight. If you go one up to midtime and receiving, you need to screw up big time or get nuffled to lose.

    In short, Skaven rulez!
     
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