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Rules The extra teams?

Discussion in 'General Blood Bowl News and Discussion' started by Morgred, Sep 4, 2011.

  1. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Their only downside is that apart from leap on the whole (!Krox) team (on 2+ or 3+) they don't have any amazing maneuverability. Screen to force them to leap early, then have to dodge to get in contact with your ballcarrier and a early slann team will be in trouble. Then hurt them as much as you can during your turn, with them lacking block or dodge.
    Later on they have skills, and become really dangerous.

    Still, in our local TT league the opposite might seem like a fact.
    One slann team went 5-1-1 first season (but lost in the first game of the playoffs).
    He went 0-1-4 the second season and retired the team.

    The other slann team's gone: 1-2-4, 2-1-2, 4-2-1 (and third place in playoffs), 2-2-1

    So nothing unusual there. Possibly they are tier one (17-9-15 is total stats for Slann in Stockbowl) but so are many other teams.

    bintz Darkelves went undefeated 7 games straight in the CCV, so perhaps we should take a look at the Darkelves and see no downsides? ;)
     
  2. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Well-Known Member

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    Some of us already do ;)
     
  3. Morgred

    Morgred Member

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    I love Dark Elves mate.. And couldnt agree more.

    But Slann with a few games experience... I wouldnt like to come up against them!
     
  4. Stryke

    Stryke Member

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    From playing a lot of Underworld on Fumbbl I'd say that while they're not a tier 3 team they are around the same tier as Vamps and Khemri i.e. sure you are more than capable of winning games but it's going to be tricky. When two of your star players are bogstandard skaven line rats you know you're in for a challenge. Saying that I love 'em to bits and would play them in a heartbeat on cyanide mindboggingly flimsy as they are.
     
  5. Darkson

    Darkson Member

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    Underworld were meant to be a tier 2 team.
     
  6. Mico Selva

    Mico Selva Active Member

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    I'd say tier 2 is just about right for Underworld. They play like a bit nerfed Skaven team (with Troll instead of Rat Ogre and Goblins replacing Gutter Runners), with less speed but some access to non-standard tactics.
     
  7. Metalsvinet

    Metalsvinet New Member

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    Well regarding the downsides of Slann: Extemely expensive blitzers and none of the players have any protective skills. You desperately need a lot of skills on all players to protect them and make them dangerous.

    In our league the slann have a 1/0/5 record even though they are coached by a pretty decent coach. Our league has the possibility to continue playing with a team from previous seasons, so it's a nice mix between developed and fresh teams and that is tough luck for a team like slann. When all your opponents have block, guard and at least one sure hands player a leaping -2d blitz without block/wrestle suddenly isn't that great.
     
  8. Morgred

    Morgred Member

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    Yeh i agree but it would be no different than starting a Chaos. Once you get those starting defensive skills you have a potentially dominate team.

    While Chaos once developed is still limited and somewhat 1 dimensional, Slann appears to have all the tools to be almost unstoppable. Once developed..
     
  9. Valokiloren

    Valokiloren Well-Known Member

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    Is this "once developed" going to be in effect for long though? After all - when a team gets that good, people start to foul the players which hit the dirt more... >=D

    On a more-serious note, Slann are certainly on the same level as Chaos, but with slightly more options overall. The trouble with assigning tiers is that Tier 1 has at least half of the 21 "official" teams and at least half of the 24 play-tested teams. So it's a bit of a moot point. -shrugs-
     
  10. Morgred

    Morgred Member

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    I think Slann are alot like Chaos in terms of developement. They both need those core skills and once they have them, they become very good sides. Chaos good at maiming and Slann good at scoring.

    Slann is mostly AV 8 they wouldnt lose too many players, even to fouls. Would they?
     
  11. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Slann catchers are the only really reliable ball handlers/leapers, and they have only ST 2 which makes them fragile in that way.

    Blitzers/linemen leap as well/poorly as they dodge, so they have it little better than skaven linemen when it comes to extricating themselves. (But since it is a leap, it does give them better placement options when it succeeds)

    So yes, a slann team with more skills is scary - but their opponents will be skilling themselves too. I've seen nothing to imply that Slann are more powerful than other teams.

    "Skilled Slann are difficult to stop from scoring touchdowns" - yes, but pro elves with dodge on two catchers and safe throw on the thrower are also immensely hard to stop from scoring.. nearly harder to stop from two-turning, since the Slann have lower speed and fewer passers.
     
  12. GalakStarscraper

    GalakStarscraper New Member

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    Actually that is not really accurate. The 2007, 2008 and 2009 Rules Reviews were official GW documents and were published online by GW and held on their website as a downloadable file. Since these 3 documents were approved by Jervis Johnson they even have the GW seal of approval. So officially speaking ... these teams do exist.

    In fact the reason the NAF allowed them to be added as official teams is because Jervis Johnson told them that in his mind they were official teams.

    That's a quote from the GW guy in charge of the game ... so the mixed of the Reviews being published by GW and Jervis's openly quoted discussion with the NAF would definitely seem to remove the ability to say that officially they don't exist.

    Tom/Galak
     
  13. Valokiloren

    Valokiloren Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they have Jervis' approval, but they don't have the approval of Games Workshop. GW refused to make BB models for the three additional teams, and therefore they aren't recognised as official teams, nor can they be used at the GW tournaments, as they would prefer it if the people used their models. As much as we love them for giving us the game, they are still a business - they need to make money to keep afloat.
     
  14. Dr Rudolf von Richten

    Dr Rudolf von Richten Member

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    You can represent these teams accurately with GW models. Underworld is just Skaven, Goblins and a Troll, Chaos Pact is all available too; Norse are pretty much Marauders (in terms of look) anyway and the rest is also present; Dark Elf lineman, Minotaur etc. Only Slann pose a problem, and even then, if you use Lizardmen of 40k Kroot as a base for converting, they count as official GW models.

    As I understand it, Slann are the bottleneck; GW won't spend the effort to make Slann Models, since apparently there's too little to gain for them in doing so. The other two would just need a repackaging; they are not in the rulebook because of some sort of 'solidarity' with the Slann; if they were in, there would be even less pressure for GW to do a Slann team (which seems nonsense to me, but I don't decide these things).

    So there's no reason these teams cannot be used in GW tournaments.

    Besides, who cares about GW tournaments anyway if even the World Cup in Amsterdam this november is not a GW thing? They've lost control of this game long ago, and what they think doesn't matter very much, I'd say.
     
  15. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    No, all that means is officially, they used to.

    They aren't in the version of Blood Bowl you can buy from GW (Gold or LRB1, whichever it is, I'd have to check at home).

    They aren't in the version of Blood Bowl rules you can download from GW.

    The other versions are effectively both superceded and "out of print". I appreciate they were in, but we (and Cyanide pointedly) are dealing with "LRB6"/Competition Rules, of which they are not a part.

    If people want to play earlier versions of those rules, that is fine, but they are no longer the official rules.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011
  16. Valokiloren

    Valokiloren Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - there's that, and the fact that GW never playtested the three borderline teams. Which is slightly more important, since they have the final word on the rulesets as they own the license. You can't exactly say that GW lost control, as they own the licensing to the game. If you own the license - you have control. And that means that they can take it back at any point, if they could be bothered.

    On the models issue - it is a Specialist Game, like Mordheim, Inquisitor and Space Hulk. In that sense, they don't give nearly as much support to it as they do their main games, and I don't blame them - the main trio are the money-makers, and the specialists are for the people who want to immerse themselves in something else.

    Yeah, it's silly, and yeah, it sounds childish, but then again, we don't actually know how the expenses to gain ratio it would be, due to not being members of the GW staff, and knowing the community, most people would purchase the models GW made purely for sentimental reasons. After all, we prefer to use the 3rd party models even against the new human team. So the expenses would be ridiculous for the revenue it would bring in.
     
  17. Darkson

    Darkson Member

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    This I disagree with. There are plenty of pdf's on the 'net, you can get every item you need for playing BB (legally) from 3rd party manufactuers, and the majority of people playing BB these days have little or nothing to do with GW (in relation to BB).

    If they pulled the game tomorrow, it would quite happily keep going without them.
     
  18. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps it would even be better for the game if they did so:powdodge:
     
  19. Coach

    Coach Administrator Head Coach

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    Games Workshop haven't play tested the current rules at all, it was all community driven.
     
  20. Dr Rudolf von Richten

    Dr Rudolf von Richten Member

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    These have been answered already. I believe the 3 extra teams have been tested by the BBRC to an extent as great as that of the general LRB 5/6 testing.

    I know, but what always confuses me is that their level of support is quite inconsistent. If they had simply ignored the game after 3rd edition, I would understand (not that I would like it, but it makes commercial sense). But since then, they have produced no less than 9 additional teams, most of which got all new models even if that wasn't strictly necessary (Khemri could have been done with Undead Mummies & Skeletons, Pestigors with Chaos Beastmen etc.), and at least 6 new star players (most of which are extremely 'niche' in their use). So why not produce a 10th new team?

    I'm not sure about that. Personally, I find that there are very few manufacturers out there who produce better Blood Bowl models than GW, and even then only some of their models are really cool. This is very much a YMMV thing, but I doubt I am alone in this.