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UEI: Crunch Cup XI - The Play Offs

Discussion in 'Crunch Cup' started by Gallows Bait, May 20, 2013.

  1. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    Crunch Cup XI: Sponsored by Fatshark

    Play Off Assignments & Kick Off Instructions


    In line with the structure of previous Cups and with the desire to give teams the fairest possible match ups available in order to give all Group stage winners a chance at making it through the play offs, the initial stage of the play offs have initially been designed to pair the closest divisions, while giving the division winners the better match ups.

    So in past cups this has been something along the following lines:

    Group 1 Winner vs Group 2 Runner Up
    Group 1 Runner Up vs Group 2 Winner

    Group 3 Winner vs Group 4 Runner Up
    Group 3 Runner Up vs Group 4 Winner

    In this manner the initial structure was designed as follows:

    [​IMG]

    As you can all see, the number of pairings and the Wild Cards present some issues.

    Accordingly, I have attempted to provide the best possible fit - luckily for me the Wild Cards ended up being Group 1 and Group 6, which has kept things a lot fairer!

    [​IMG]


    As such your initial pairings are as follows:

    [​IMG]


    Please can all qualified teams remove themselves from the Group Stage league in game and join UEI: Crunch Cup (Play Off Stage).

    The password for all teams applying to the league is crunch.

    All teams in the Play Off Stages must join the in game play off league by Saturday 25 May 2013. Once all teams have successfully applied the play off pairings will be seeded in line with the above structure and play offs will commence.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  2. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Crunched Cup Playoffs applications will have to be done by Saturday the 25th of May, since the seeding for the CrC is made by random rolls after all teams have applied.
     
  3. LoopH0LE

    LoopH0LE Member

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    Hooo boy. Getting rounded up from Group 5 is pretty scary. Guess we'll be playing with the big boys!
     
  4. Squall

    Squall Member

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    woohoo in the bottom half :D Group 6 and 7 must be happy heh
     
  5. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Well, afais GB has not yet confirmed if the pairings will be in contiguous groups roughly (i.e. 5 groups is not an even number etc) or accross the whole half of groups :D so difficult to know if those G6 or G7 players should be excited or not! Will see tomorrow.
     
  6. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Well-Known Member

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    It only really becomes clear when you sit down and look at it how challenging the wild-cards make it to have a fair seeding. Regardless of how you slice it, at least one coach who won their group is going to be handed a much rougher game than they might have otherwise expected. This is, I think, something that will need to be kept in mind when planning future CCs. Still, I'm sure GB will be as fair as he possibly can. :)
     
  7. Kanil

    Kanil Member

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    I'm not sure I get what you mean. How is a 4th place wildcard a rougher opponent than a 3rd place not-wildcard?
     
  8. Barninho

    Barninho Well-Known Member

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    Well there's a wildcard from division 1 for example, so I guess it depends where you put the wildcards, but you'd expect a div 1 team to be far more developed than any team from div 10 for example, title winner or no. I guess it depends where they go in the draw, but it's tricky.
     
  9. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Well-Known Member

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    It's not exactly about who has to play the 4th place wildcard - it's about what effect that has elsewhere. Okay, so take Danton's Mad Missionary Mob for example.

    In an ordinary scenario you might expect the play-off composition to run

    1st place Group 1 vs 3rd place Group 2
    2nd place Group 1 vs 2nd place Group 2
    3rd place Group 1 vs 1st place Group 2

    1st place Group 3 vs 3rd place Group 4
    2nd place Group 3 vs 2nd place Group 4
    3rd place Group 3 vs 1st place Group 4


    and so on. The reward for winning your group is pretty obvious - not having to face the winner of another group, giving a slightly easier (in theory, at least) route to the next round of the play-offs.

    However, we have to fit the Mob in somewhere. They finished 4th in Group 1, and there's no way you can place them without disrupting the neatness of the above seeding pattern. So we might have

    1st place Group 1 vs 4th place Group 1
    2nd place Group 1 vs 3rd place Group 2
    3rd place Group 1 vs 2nd place Group 2
    1st place Group 3 vs 1st place Group 2

    2nd place Group 3 vs 3rd place Group 4
    3rd place Group 3 vs 2nd place Group 4
    1st place Group 5 vs 1st place Group 4


    And so on. Or, you might have

    1st place Group 1 vs 1st place Group 3
    2nd place Group 1 vs 3rd place Group 2
    3rd place Group 1 vs 2nd place Group 2
    4th place Group 1 vs 1st place Group 2

    2nd place Group 3 vs 3rd place Group 4
    3rd place Group 3 vs 2nd place Group 4
    1st place Group 5 vs 1st place Group 4


    And so on.

    This the effect of trying to 'slot in' the Mob in accordance with where the initial pattern suggests they should be. Either way leads to the unideal scenario of two pairings of group winners having to face one another. The big losers in either scenario are the winners of Group 3 and 5, who go from facing a team in 3rd in a division below them to the winner of a group above them - and for the Group 3 winners in the latter example, two whole divisions upwards! For that reason alone the alternative seems preferable, but like I say, not ideal.

    I should point out I don't want to second guess what Gallows is thinking at all, or stir up controversy. I'm sure people are going to be happy enough whatever he decides on.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  10. Pollution

    Pollution Member

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    I see where you're going with that.

    For instance, my 3rd place Amazon team (TV 1100 or so) COULD end up against someone with a mightly blow piling on heavy team.

    Though, the TV difference should be made up by inducements to make it more or less OK. (so I could pull a star player, on top of a wizard and some Bloodwiser Babes, or an extra apoth, etc...)

    I'm interested in seeing how these all get layed out myself.

    each week is going to be heavy on the AI Practice for me, trying different inducements, figuring out what the best route for not outright dying will be, etc...

    (though, if my last game is any indication, I'm doomed. Lost 2 players to ag busts, a thrower and a blitzer, and I think I have another with MNG. It's going to be rough going from here on out).
     
  11. Rburton

    Rburton Member

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    Your bloody Zons deserve everything they get! ;p
     
  12. Lebe666

    Lebe666 Well-Known Member

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    4th Division leader or 3rd Division second place would be honored to face Danton !! I've had that honor already... :D
     
  13. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Well-Known Member

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    That would be something else I forgot to mention, yes. The div 1 winner does get more than a little screwed in the red distribution. This is compounded by the fact that the wildcard in question happens to be a former OCC champ. ;)
     
  14. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    As the season leader, you deserve to be doubly honored :D
     
  15. Lebe666

    Lebe666 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a modest guy... I'm fine squashing a Div 4 victim... I mean challenger ! :cool:

    Going against Danton is a lose lose proposition. If I lose... it seems my first game against him was only luck. (it was hehe) If he loses its very irritating for him too... :D
     
  16. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Or we could have both Wildcards playing each other. Not the fairest solution but... Problem solved? :confused:
     
  17. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but who does the winner of that game then play? It sounds like it just kicks the same problem into the next round....
     
  18. Ken

    Ken Kenny the Mechanic

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    And then have the lowest seeded player in div 5 get dropped to the 6-10 group? Doesn't that maintain the equittable distribution problem?
     
  19. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Yeah I hear you, but there could be a number of ways to handle that. The main premise would be to keep the group play offs consistent with previous editions.

    The winner of the wildcards play off could then be slotted in for the 2nd round based on average TV value of the pair or similar reasoning, much like the current group structure has been set up (TV for the most part).

    Not saying this is the more fair pairing solution, just one of the most simple ones.

    But this is prolly a moot point as I think GB has probably selected a different method anyways.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  20. skullashtray

    skullashtray Active Member

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    isnt there going to be a wild card from both sides of the split 1-5 danton 6-10 me meaning 16 players in both groups then seed from that 16 player pool some how