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Underworld Warpstone Troll: +1 STR or Block?

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Werebat, Apr 9, 2014.

  1. Werebat

    Werebat Well-Known Member

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    So Wyrmwood's infamous warpstone troll, Gorbo, rolled well on his second level up and got two sixes.

    He already has Claw.

    I'm now trying to decide between +1 STR (which would make him Str 6), Block, and Pro.

    +1 STR would make Tentacles more powerful, and I was planning to take Tentacles.

    Block has obvious benefits that seem so very good that I'd really hesitate giving them up.

    Pro might help keep old Gorbo from causing as many turnovers (and eating so many of his goblin teammates).

    What do you coaches think?
     
  2. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    Hadn't considered str 6 for tents, still I'd take block. You want your wst upright
     
  3. Jbecks

    Jbecks Member

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    take block!
     
  4. PaloLV

    PaloLV Member

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    As an Underworld coach I would never take the boring, safe choice of block. That is for teams with the luxury to make boring, safe choices. Underworld is about high risk and glorious carnage and thus +1 Str should always be taken. It will make tentacles much better, multiple block becomes very viable later on, and you might roll another double later on anyways.

    A multiple block, tentacles, Str 6 troll with claw would be a terror. Fill him out with grab and stand firm if you don't get block later on and he's a legendary monster.

    Pay no heed to these other boring coaches. Go for epic glory!
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  5. Werebat

    Werebat Well-Known Member

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    Damn, you make a convincing argument! Moreover, STR 6 looks very nice on Break Tackle, which has nice synergy with Tentacles.

    I guess the question really is -- do I want a road block, or a killer?

    In theory, Underworld already HAS two perfectly good killers in the form of ClawPOMB blitzers. And if I DON'T take STR, I'm almost guaranteed to roll doubles again on next level up, just as a taunt.

    Then again, ensuring that I get Pro wouldn't be such a bad move... ;)

    CURSES! Such a difficult decision!
     
  6. Limdood

    Limdood Well-Known Member

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    i second PaloLV's advice.....if this were orcs...you'd take the block or pro troll...but orcs can do that, they have a bajillion guard and AV9 galore

    This being Underworld, you've GOT better killers (seriously, the blitzers are WAY better killers than the troll...he just grabs claw to smack around opposing big guys and be effective on the few free blocks he gets on the poor sods who can't get away or are sacrificed to him).

    the ST6 roadblock of TERRIBLE CLAWMB TENTACLY DOOM will be much scarier, and a few SS/DT gobbos sneaking into the cage to mark the BC and deny assists against the colossus will have opponents really sweating during their offense.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  7. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    With block you can be more active with the troll. 2d blocks suddenly only have a 1/36 chance of a turnover so you can do them at the start of your turns and you'll get more knockdowns and less turnovers (marginally). With sf there's only a 1/3 chance of getting rid of the troll on a 1d block not 1/2. Block makes for a more useful troll all round, and it saves 20 TV. Str 6 is mainly about psych warfare.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  8. Nikolai II

    Nikolai II Super Moderator Moderator

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    Strength.

    The Chaos troll is just a shaved Beast of Nurgle anyway :p
     
  9. akirilus

    akirilus Well-Known Member

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    I agree with TS here - while Block is the clearly the boring choice, it's indispensable in one crucial area - keeping your troll upright. Tentacles aren't doing squat if he's laying on the ground.

    If your troll has no Block, and your opponent does, then:

    a 2d block knocks the troll over 75% of the time
    a 1d block knocks the troll over 50% of the time
    a -2d block knocks the troll over 25% of the time

    If your troll has Block, and so does your opponent:

    a 2d block knocks the troll over 55% of the time
    a 1d block knocks the troll over 33% of the time
    a -2d block knocks the troll over 11% of the time

    Block pairs WONDERFULLY with Stand Firm, which the troll can get on a normal roll.

    If anything, I would be debating between Block and Pro here, as Pro is infinitely more useful when it comes to TTM magic. So if you want the gadget skill, go for Pro (and RR those RS/Always Hungry rolls). Because the Troll has Loner, Pro IS in essence a free RR - you still gotta roll 4+ to use either, but at least you are not wasting team RR, and you can even tempt fate and try RRing TWO actions in the same sequence (and there's a 25% chance it'll work out for you :) ).

    The only thing STR 6 is good for is cage-busting via Break Tackle. But with a whopping 4 MA and no Block or Tackle, even if you make the 3+ BT into the cage, you have no guarantee at all to bring down that Blodged up ball carrier (and you can't just RR at will either, so odds are 2 dice is what you get).

    P.S. Having thought about it further, there IS another mutation (other than the obvious one - tentacles) that STR 6 has good synergy with - Horns. It's a very odd choice, but Minotaur and Bloodthirster are the only two big guys that have it to begin with, and for them STR+ makes sense - blitz at effective Str 7 = 3d blocks against conventional players. I wouldn't do it, but it is an option (that requires 2 skills, none of which improve your ability to stay upright or disrupt your opponent's actions when it's not your turn).
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  10. Dalryk

    Dalryk Member

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    What he ^ said.
     
  11. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Block!!!!!!

    Since when having the Troll upright more often and getting more CAS due to both down and Block is boring?! :D
     
  12. Werebat

    Werebat Well-Known Member

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    I have been thinking this exact thing. And Gorbo *does* toss his gobbo teammates around a lot (this season he's passed more yards than the two throwers on the team combined). And he's already eaten two gobbos. It would be nice to keep that under control -- AND the Pro reroll COULD be used to sweep those double skull rolls under the carpet from time to time.

    OTOH, STR 6 makes Tentacles AND Break Tackle more viable, both of which are important skills for a roadblock to have (and BT isn't JUST useful for cagebusting when you have Tentacles). And I'm much more likely to roll doubles later on and pick up Block than I am to roll double sixes later on and pick up +1 STR.

    Then again, inasmuch as passing on the +1 STR is just ASKING the dice to roll doubles at next level up, could anyone really complain about having a troll with Block AND Pro?

    Decisions, decisions.

    Really there's no BAD choice here. This is the kind of problem you love to have.
     
  13. Fallowheart

    Fallowheart Active Member

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    Block.

    Block (it bears repeating).

    Btw... Block. No other skill is going to get him closer to level 5 as quickly for that NEXT skill up and be a royal PITA for other non block big guys.
    But don't worry he'll die next game on a three dice against triple pow from an unskilled hobgoblin anyway. ;)
     
  14. Limdood

    Limdood Well-Known Member

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    aki, i wouldn't touch horns on a warpstone troll....if you're blitzing with the troll, you aren't blitzing with the blitzers...and WHY AREN'T YOU BLITZING WITH THOSE SUPERKILLER-CLAWPOMB-DEATH-MACHINES?!?!?

    also, again....ST6!!! You only live once! unless you're a troll....then you live as many times as regen succeeds...
     
  15. Boffa

    Boffa Active Member

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    I think because you took claw first block works well with that skill.. if you had tents first I'd probably go strength :rolleyes:
     
  16. cjblackburn

    cjblackburn Well-Known Member

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    When I am facing tenticles I do like 2d block against tenticles pieces as opposed to dodging away. Especially if you have tied up more than one piece. I would be less likely to try it if he had block. St 6 would be less of a dissincentive. So if tenticles if your next skill I would be happier facing claw, st 6, tenticles as apposed to a claw, block and tenticles.
     
  17. PaloLV

    PaloLV Member

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    Sure, people like to just knock over the tentacles monster. But if you've got a team where tentacles bothers you then committing 5 players (str 3 guy + 4 assists) to knock over a str 6 troll is generally a bad idea and often won't even be possible due to lack of guard on those teams. Even if they knock over the troll it's still a win for the most part because those players that moved in to assist on the troll aren't going anywhere and are probably going to find themselves stuck when the troll stands up next turn. Those teams are generally going to stay as far away as possible from the troll so you will end up pushing targets into the troll to keep people stuck on him. Try a dauntless block? Come on, I dare you to roll a 4+ to avoid getting smashed into the dirt. They won't try that either unless they are desperate. Once he gets tentacles a str 3 player will need to roll a 9+ to even try dodging away or 28% chance and some poor str 2 dude like a gutter runner or wood elf catcher would only get away on a 10+ roll or 17%.

    If it's a bash team that isn't too bothered by str 6 then they definitely won't be bothered by a str 5 troll with block either. They may have enough guard and str 4 players clustered around that a str 5 troll won't even be able to get a 2d block off but a str 6 troll almost certainly will be able to. So they knock down the troll with a str 4 guy and 3 assists. That's four guys on a bash team committed to one player freeing up the pitch for the rats and goblins to be safer and move around and cause damage.

    Str 6 is pure win for Underworld. A 3d block without skills is only causing a turnover 4% of the time and it only takes 1 assist to get that generally and you need a guy nearby to poke the troll anyways. That's almost as good as a 2d block with block at 2.8%.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  18. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    With no block people can do an end of turn -2d block against your tent beast with reasonable chances of success. That str 6 claw is also going to get joy against any str 4 or 5 pieces you might want to hit than a str 5 blocker would.

    Basically as you say its a nice problem either way. Pros and cons. I'd save myself the TV though.
     
  19. Werebat

    Werebat Well-Known Member

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    TS, why would you choose Block over Pro? My guess is because Pro won't keep the troll standing? It *will* help him TTM, though, as well as avoid going stupid when he isn't (and even when he is) being babysat. And eating gobbos.

    I want all three! :D
     
  20. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

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    Odds for TTM are too low at the best of time to make me want to invest a skill slot in Pro and would almost never try to act with a lone troll even with Pro. I like Pro though, mainly for re-rolling rs when he is being babysat and pushes. Great skill, but likely to come up a bit less often than block.