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Skaven What to do with an AG 6 Gutter Runner?

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by ickey, Feb 8, 2011.

  1. ickey

    ickey Member

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    Hi all,

    I was lucky enough to roll a second straight +AG on one of the Gutter Runners on my Skaven team in the Naggaroth Open Public League. The TV is currently around 1,600. One Gutter Runner has Block, Side Step and Sure Feet; one other has Wrestle and Dauntless.

    Now what do I do with my third GR and his AG 6?

    First of all, I think I'll need to give him Block next to enhance his survivability.

    After that, and assuming he survives long enough, where do I go?

    I kind of figure that, with AG 6, he won't really need any skills to help him dodge, catch or pick up the ball. A dodge into 2 TZ, picking up a ball or catching an accurate pass in 2 TZ should still only be a 2+, so I reckon anything like Catch, Two Heads, Big Hand etc. is a bit of a waste!

    But then what do I do? Something marginally useful on defense like Pass Block, Tackle or Shadowing? Disturbing Presence (if I'm lucky enough to roll a double)?

    Or am I wrong to even worry about this right now, and should simply pray he survives long enough (which doesn't seem likely given the prevalence of teams designed for carnage in Naggaroth)?
     
  2. ickey

    ickey Member

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    Sorry I meant Foul Appearance, not Disturbing Presence.
     
  3. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Was thinking initially Leap after Block, but with MA9 and that 2+ on 2 TZ dodge, not sure how much more useful it could get. Still worth to consider for those ocasions where dodging will still put you too far away from your destination.

    Otherwise make him a dedicated blitzer with wrestle or block followed by tackle and/or stripball and eventually Dauntless. You can dodge on a 3+ into a cage!! (88.8% with Dodge RR), since a 2 dice against blitz to a non surehands carrier can be worth it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2011
  4. Strobinator

    Strobinator Member

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    Wrestle/Tackle/Dauntless/ Strip Ball (can be omitted)

    If you get doubles before Dauntless get horns. This guy should be blitzing the man inside the cage. Leap is a fine skill, but with 6 agility it is almost unecessary. You will want the skills for blitzing first as dodging into the cage is actually pretty damn easy for him.

    Bear in mind, I do not expect this player will live very long. Enjoy him while he lasts!
     
  5. ickey

    ickey Member

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    Thanks for the advice guys.

    But to be honest, I really don't like the idea of my most prized possession becoming a blitzer, dodging into opponents' cages and putting speculative 2D opponent chooses hits on ballcarriers, only to be massacred in the next turn if that doesn't work out.

    I have a couple of other GRs that can do that (in particular one that already has Wrestle and Dauntless), or a SV with Tackle. I'd much rather have Mr AG 6 hang back and scoop up the ball if and when it does come loose.

    So if we start over again, on the assumption that he'll be more of a strong safety on defense (not sure if anyone is familiar with American football - someone who hangs back and comes up to the LoS in support every once in a while), where does this take us?

    I am kind if starting to like the Wrestle / Jump Up combo... (although until I get Jump Up - if ever! - I'd rather have Block to keep him on his feet in the first place).

    I also think Foul Appearance would be nice (but need a double for that). Side Step is always nice to have of course, and can help to avoid some hits.

    Anything I've overlooked? Maybe Sure Feet to swoop in, pick up the loose ball, and get back out again?
     
  6. VoidSeer

    VoidSeer Member

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    Jump up on a AV7 player is a wasted skill IMO.
     
  7. Runi

    Runi Member

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    After Block I would consider Fend. I think it is an important skill for weak, expensive players with low armour. It prevents a second block from Frenzy (and Frenzy players usually don't have Tackle) as well as the use of Piling On, which he will be a big target for. Even if he is only pushed, you might not need a dodge in your next turn. It may only fail on 1, but that's every 6th roll statistically, so you don't want to increase the risk ;).
     
  8. ickey

    ickey Member

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    I agree - UNLESS that player also has Wrestle and often falls over without having to make an armour roll.
     
  9. Creamster

    Creamster Member

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    I would prefer Block over Wrestle as he will be a massive fouling target (even more so with Av 7). I agree leap is a waste with Ag 6 (to be honest I even feel Ag 6 is a waste...).

    I would most likely go Block, Sure-feet, Sprint, Guard. Use him as a mobile guard giver and constant loose ball threat on defence and on offense he speaks for himself with Ag6 and effective Mv 12.
     
  10. ickey

    ickey Member

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    @ Creamster: AG 6 is a waste until it comes to doing anything (dodging, catching, picking up balls) involving 2 TZs. And I think you'd agree that does happen quite a bit...

    It's kind of like having Nerves of Steel, Big Hand, and Stunty all in one!
     
  11. John McGuirk

    John McGuirk Well-Known Member

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    What to do with him? Make your peace, I doubt he's long for this world ;) :skull:
     
  12. Rusty

    Rusty Active Member

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    You could put him out to stud and hope he breeds a whole new batch of AG 6 skaven...
     
  13. ickey

    ickey Member

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    Funny enough, I think the AG 6 GR is a curse!

    I was unbeaten (11-2-0) until I got him (i.e. until the second AG+).

    Now today, my first two games with him and his AG 6, I lost them both. Worst luck I've ever had. Against Amazons and then Skaven, and they both absolutely massacred me! It seemed like I failed every single armour roll (and they none), had 6 serious injuries in each game, most of the rest of the team KO'd.

    I'll have to seriously consider firing this guy... or getting him an injury that brings him back down to AG 5.
     
  14. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Lol, dont. Bear with him. Those games are just meant to be. Keep a humble low profile and let Nuffle pass by and focus his attention in someone else...

    A Block-less AG6 player is nowhere near a guarantee of a win. You need the whole team for that. Just enjoy the uber rat while it lasts!
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  15. ickey

    ickey Member

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    To the veterans out there:

    I'm actually having second thoughts now as to whether AG 6 was a waste after all.

    As I said in one of the previous posts, I assumed that AG 6 would start to deliver benefits when dodging, catching, picking up balls etc. in 2 TZs.

    However, yesterday's match made me reconsider. I tried dodging into 2 TZs, assuming I'd need a 2+: AG 6 (1+) +1 (Dodge) -2 (TZ) = 2+

    But it seems I forgot that a 1 BEFORE OR AFTER MODIFICATION is always a fail.

    So I rolled a 2; with the modifiers (+1 -2) it became a 1; and even with AG 6, a 1 is always a fail!

    Is that right, or am I misunderstanding something here?

    If it is right, then the only conclusion is that AG 6 is in fact a complete waste, and confers no advantages whatsoever over AG 5!
     
  16. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Not correct. Copied from the Competition Rules, page 8:

    "A roll of 1 BEFORE modification always fails and a roll of 6 before modification always succeeds for any Agility roll made during the game. If the final MODIFIED score equals or beats the required roll, the player may carry on moving..."

    The 1 is only BEFORE modification. Not after. Other than that check the success roll table in the same page (AG6 needs a final result AFTER modifiers of 1+).

    A 2+ clean roll with a 6 AG player into 2 TZ should be a success.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  17. ickey

    ickey Member

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    Gracias viajero. In that case, I may have discovered a bug in the Cyanide game. Will continue to monitor the situation, take a screen shot if it occurs again, and report back.
     
  18. biLLy

    biLLy Member

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    OMG, 6AG!!

    I would build this player as a pure 1 Turn Touchdowner, that would be great to use in turn 8, and to make you able to farm those wonderfulls 2-1 games...

    To do that, you could go for the "safer" route to firstly get block (to increase surviability), then Leap, Sprint, Sure feet, and, of course, if you ever have the chance, get +MV anytime.

    You could also skip block, since your player would not do a single block, and theorically he would be at the pitch ONLY one turn, to score, and then he would go again to bench. But you know, shit happens, and prolly you would be able to enter him sooner or later, and then you would love to have block with him...

    Of course, try to not use this player ever in defense, only in attack and only whenever it is needed, not all the offenses. And try to save the apo as much as you can, only it should be used in this player and maybe 1-2 others very valued players, leave rest of your rats rest in peace if they are called to the graveyard...

    Concluding, use this AG6 to score fast and keeped him at the bench hidden of hurting, just to get at the pitch in hard moments and solve your match asap, to return to benck asap too.

    Cheers!!
     
  19. Gallows Bait

    Gallows Bait Super Moderator Moderator

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    If your game is logged you could capture it from the replay rather than wait for the same incident to happen.
     
  20. lamaros

    lamaros Member

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    Block, pass with a double. Now you have a long passing game.

    Absolutly no reason to get 6 agi otherwise. 5 is all you need on a GR.

    Also, never get horns. Dauntless is way better. If you roll a double on another GR get big hand. Big hand and leap will win you games.