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Wood Elf Worth buying the ent?

Discussion in 'League and Team Development Tactics' started by Purgatory, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    I'm new to this game, but I've done rather well in a league of mostly other beginners with Wood Elves (go figure), and yesterday I won my game in the qualification rounds, meaning I'll be playing with the big boys next season. I'm pondering shelling out for a Treeman for my line-up, because the opposition in the big boys' league is very bashy.

    Here's my team as of now (and I know, I suck at skilling up my liners).

    Wardancer - Strip Ball, Side Step, Jump Up
    Wardancer - Guard, Stand Firm, -1 MA

    Catcher - Block, Side Step
    Catcher - Block
    Catcher - Wrestle, Dauntless

    Thrower - Accurate, Safe Throw

    Lineperson - Guard, -1 MA
    Lineperson - Block, Dodge
    Lineperson - Block
    Lineperson - Dodge
    Lineperson - Dodge
    Lineperson - Kick
    Lineperson - +1 ST

    5 RRs, 9 FF, 2 Cheers, 2 Coaches, 1 Apoth, 200k in the bank.

    All in all TV 1980, though this is from memory, so there might be some slight discrepancy compared to the team.

    The teams I will be facing in the next league are;

    Skaven
    Dark Elves
    Khemri or Human (most likely Khemri, though their qualification match isn't till Tuesday)
    Dwarfs
    Slann or High Elves (I'm betting on Slann here, but who knows?)
    Chaos

    All of the teams are very developed, with TVs ranging from about 1800 to 2200. People keep telling me the Treeman is bad, but I've played loads of games with him on BBLE, and he seems to do very well in a team that is very akin to my IRL-team above. Is it worth shelling out the 120k out of my 200 to get one? More importantly, I have a catcher and two linepeople who are 1-2 SPPs away from a level, meaning my TV would skyrocket if I got the tree and they all dinged at the same time. I've already gone through a league of infinite inducements for my opponent and chainsaw-wielding maniacs in every game, I'd like to spare myself from that again.

    All inputs on this question, and of course the team in general, are welcome.
     
  2. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Linepersons!!! lol. 1st time I see that, so PC! If it werent because Bloodbowl is one of the least PC games I have ever played!

    The debate about "Ent" yay or nay is probably as old as bloodbowl itself, and will never get resolved. I am typically in favour, but many successfull woody teams have been so without one aswell. So. Tough one.

    In terms of inducements for your opponents you state that they are in the 1800-2200 range, emphasis on the 2200!

    If this is the case, 120K for a tree plus a couple skill ups would simply put you at the top of that range. Nothing extraordinary in a developed private league me thinks.

    It all depends on what teams in particular are at the low end of the spectrum. The tree is plenty good in protecting your valuable elves and tying down average or low Ag and average St opponent pieces. So it can help you a lot against Khemri, Chaos, Dwarves, Human and Slann. Also against skaven since only 4 of their pieces are Ag4. Against skaven, the tree excells at tying down SV and Linemen (sorry, Linepersons) because Ag3 and AV7 is exactly what a ST6, MB piece needs to stick to and hit. Asu usual, against Chaos, do not put him on the LOS when kicking and watch out for claw etc.

    So, all in all I think only against the dark elves it would be a bit of waste, and still: Against other elves the Tree will probably be ignored, which in turn will give you the control of the center of the pitch. The ability to have the center cleared and open for your incursions, passes or sudden changes of wing is also very powerful for the wood elves, not to be underestimated.

    Take it!

    PS: your group seems not to be a massive Dodge one, but (dark elves, skaven, human catchers...) maybe u should consider having at least one tackle player?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2011
  3. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    Thanks for your reply. I'm glad you noticed the Linepeople, I was hoping someone would. My Elves are very PC indeed :)

    And yes, I will get tackle on a couple of players for their next level, the second WD and the Wrestle Catcher will both get it, for example.
     
  4. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    If you have the tree you will suffer about 1/3 less casualties to you roster. (Only done stats in a private league with 50 matches with and 50 matches without the tree). And if they buy a chainsaw and deside to chop at your tree - well thats another round of safety for your important WD´s and catchers.

    Remember that you deside if you want to use stand firm or not and that can sometimes trap the opponent:pow:
     
  5. Creamster

    Creamster Member

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    I agree completely - No tackle and only one strip ball can see a dodge surehands carrier being untouchable (expect this on humans and dwarfs at least!). Also does this team really need 5 RR's? I know they are cheap but with some dodge and block I rarely go through 3 a half.

    Seeing as you only have 2 carrier sackers (wardancer and catcher) I would get the treeman. This will keep some elves on the pitch which in turn will keep these 2on the pitch as well.
     
  6. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Yes, extremely good point about the RR!! I would drop 2 right away. Specially if you buying the Tree. That would eliminate oyur concerns regarding inducements.

    If you are still worried about RR then drop at least 1 and then get rid of the 2nd one after you have given Leader next to your thrower but 3 should be enough for woodies.
     
  7. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    Thanks for the input, guys, I'll give it some thought. If I drop a RR, I'll only go up 70k in TV. Sounds like a good idea. :pow:
     
  8. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Ok. So, if you end up buying the tree, and since you say you are new to the game then please read coach´s guide on him in this site just to make sure oyu familiar not only with its strengths but also the weaknesses:

    - Unreliable, taking roots, loner
    - No block access
    - 50% only to stand up after being knocked down

    So be careful uisng it:

    - Dont build your plans based on the tree succeeding a certain action because quite often it won´t.
    - Consider every turn if it is worth actually even moving (or even blocking) with him at all, as that gives 1 in 6 to take roots. Sometimes the best course of action with the Tree is doing nothing and stand there alone or simply keeping the mark on some players but not blocking them.
    - If you block with him let that action be the last one or one of the last ones in your turn as risks of turnover are greater with him. In any event, do not waste RR on him.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2011
  9. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    No worries, I've read all the guides on the WE players (and most others too). :pow:
     
  10. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    Don't listen to Viajero - his tree was useless against my fresh Chaos team in the Forum Open League!

    Oh wait... maybe not... :eek:
     
  11. Viajero

    Viajero Active Member

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    Lol, yes, that was a good day for a Tree! But you are a good WE coach yourself. Whats your take on the tree?
     
  12. VoidSeer

    VoidSeer Member

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    The old WE question...

    Personally, I play without. But even if you like playing with it, it is already a bit late to get one. Trees are really slow to skill up, and I feel it be useless to get one now.

    The best choice I see, is to lower your TV by dropping at least one RR and replace your -MA wardancer. Guard is nice, but certainly not on a WD and stand firm is useless (get side step next time).

    You should also favor wrestle over block. Wrestle slows down opposing team, allowing you to benefit from your superior mobility even more. It also protects player by denying a second block on your player in case of a "both down" result.

    Last but not least... Jump up on a dancer is not something I like either. First because Jump Up on AV7 sucks, second because your dancers should not fall. Get mighty blow, next time :)
     
  13. danton

    danton Well-Known Member

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    Well I consider myself to be more of a DaE coach than a WE one, but I do play wood elf teams now and then and I personally like having the tree in order to be able to absorb a lot of damage on the LOS and tie players up. If I could take one on a DaE team too then I would! :)
     
  14. coachman

    coachman Well-Known Member

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    I love the tree. He keeps my other on the field and dishes out the odd casualty on a team that has no other normal strength access.

    Get the tree. You will also find he draws fire from claw players. These players normally have MB too so they are wasting blocks that could be sending your better players off.

    As far as it being too late for a tree, a starting tree is not much worse than a skilled tree (unless the skill is block). He will do the same job, trap players and only really block on 3 dice.
     
  15. VoidSeer

    VoidSeer Member

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    Decent players will simply ignore your tree. What you say about absorbing or dishing pain stands true, but only for the kick off turns.

    Most players will use their MB players against your squishy AV7 guys, not on the AV10 piece of lumber.
     
  16. Netsmurf

    Netsmurf Well-Known Member

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    If you score alot in a match then the tree gains in LOS value:pow:
     
  17. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    I'm gonna playtest with the tree tonight :pow:
     
  18. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

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    Okay, so the playtesting yielded more or less nothing :skull: I played a few drives against a developed (1910 TV) Skaven team, which was just us pushing each other players around like girls and then scoring in two turns.

    The tree seemed useful enough, and dropping the reroll lands me at "only" 2050 TV :pow: Gonna brainstorm some names now :)