1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Wood Elf Wussies in Training - Learning to Elf

Discussion in 'Team Blogs' started by sbr32, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. sbr32

    sbr32 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,066
    Location:
    US West Coast (GMT-8)
    Cyanide Username:
    sbr32
    Country Flag:
    I recently realized I had a strange, new feeling I had never felt before. I want to learn to play with Elves, instead of just punching them. I was hoping it would go away but it didn't. Ugh.

    Outside of a somewhat disastrous 9 game run with Dark Elves in the inaugural Munch Cup I haven't played any Elf team at all against another human. I have played a relatively blah 5 seasons with Skaven and 3 decent seasons with Vampires in the Big Crunch, and 3 poor seasons of Humans and 4 pretty mediocre seasons of Necro in the Big Crunch 2. I play a bit of Vampires and Necro in TT as well.

    Since I am playing BB2 and hate Dark Elves with the white hot passion of a thousand burning suns I am going with Wood Elves.

    I went with the 2 War Dancer, 1 Catcher, 2 RR start. I like the speed and Dodge of the Catcher and am not nearly good enough to do something silly like the 0RR roster. I don't currently have much interest in a Treeman, but would love to hear arguments for him as I can be convinced of almost anything.

    The team Wussies in Training has joined the Munch Spoon 6 competition-Griff Division, which is for brand new teams only. The other teams in the division are: Chaos Dwarf (Jeliel), Dwarf (Regor), Norse (Martin ScoresEasy), Necromantic (crimsonsun), High Elf (TwoScoops).

    Sorry no story or narrative here, just my trials and tribulations while I try to learn how to play Wood Elves. I have already played my first 3 matches but I am hoping to continue on with this team in the various Munch Cup circuit leagues.
     
    Ilgoth likes this.
  2. sbr32

    sbr32 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,066
    Location:
    US West Coast (GMT-8)
    Cyanide Username:
    sbr32
    Country Flag:
    Game 1. Munch Spoon 6, MD 1.

    I didn't expect too much in my first game against Jeliel's Chaos Dwarves but this was even less competitive than I hoped. The Bull Centaur picking the ball up on his first attempt was rather disheartening.

    ____________________________

    Midget Jones' Diary 2 :: Wussies in Training 0

    My first foray into Wood Elfing did not go well. :D Dead Line Elf, -MA Line Elf (who got MVP) and MNG War Dancer (who injured a Hobgoblin before getting smashed himself). I also thought that Strip Ball was a starting skill on Dancers. I need to stop playing so early in the morning. :oops:

    My Elves kicked off and unfortunately a Bull Centaur was able to pick the ball up on his first attempt. I played pretty aggressively but wasn't able to accomplish much except get Elves smacked around. I did pull off a Leap Blitz into 2 red dice and got Push/Both Down; that is when I realized I didn't have Strip Ball :idiot: The Chaos Dwarves were able to score on their T8 but needed a 2D Block from a Dwarf without a reroll to get there.

    I only had 7 players for my T8 (a KO'ed Line Elf as well) and couldn't even get the first push I needed to see if I was even set up right for the 1TTD. My KO didn't come back while Jeliel's KO'ed Hobgoblin did so it was 7 Elves against 10 to start the second half.

    Then it got a bit comical.

    Perfect Defense and a very deep kick made things difficult, then I started rolling 1s all over the place. 7/22 Dodge rolls were 1s for the game (though the Dwarves rolled 4 1's on 10 D6 so it wasnt just me). Meanwhile 2 more Elves were KO'ed and the War Dancer couldn't even stand up after being Stunned by a foul every turn.

    Eventually I was able to string together enough not 1's to grab the ball from the ground, dodge into safety and attempt to punt the ball down the field to prevent a second Chaos Dwarf score, but of course a Dwarf in a Tacklezone rolled a 6 on the Int. He was 11 spaces away with 3 turns to go and I wasn't able to put up any resistance so he rambled down the field to score at the end.

    MC6 G1 report.png

    MC6 G1 stats.png

    As seen above the MVP went to the move busted Line Elf. A Line Elf had a completion and Utae'und the War dancer got a casualty before he was knocked out of next game.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  3. sbr32

    sbr32 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,066
    Location:
    US West Coast (GMT-8)
    Cyanide Username:
    sbr32
    Country Flag:
    Game 1. Munch Spoon 6, MD 2.

    I forgot to buy an Apothecary before this match, thankfully nothing disastrous happened.

    I expected even less going into this game. 1000TV Dwarves are a bit better than Chorf, and like Jeliel Regor is too good of a coach to expect any mistakes to capitalize on.
    ____________________

    Wussies in Training 2 :: Carnival of BeerPong 2

    I had 3 Loners and only 1 War Dancer. I induced a Babe.

    The Elves received and after Regor committed hard to my right on a Blitz event I was able to get around the left side and score on T3, losing a Loner to an injury along the way. A run of 1s stopped me from being able to do much to stop the Dwarf drive and they scored on their T8 without further loss of Elves.

    Regor's second drive was a bit more exciting; he gave the ball to a Blitzer after a touchback. His early blocks resulted in either pushes or injured elves leaving me short handed but enough elves to Leap Blitz into the cage for a 1D block Both Down rerolled into Stumble, which killed the Blitzer! Then the WarDancer fell over trying to Dodge back out. After more Elf punching I was down to 6 players (4 Injured and 1 KO) and conceded the TD.

    My 1 KO woke up which left me enough players for a 1TTD attempt.

    High Kick on a medium depth kick was helpful.

    First block was 1D for a Pow. Rerolled into a push. Then a Push/Push. Then a Skull/Push and the Catcher was in position but in 2 tackle zones. No interception and accurate pass. 4+ Catch. Dodge time: 4+,3+ (needed Dodge skill), 3+, 2+. Surely he won't make 3 GFIs. Ah he did!! Tie game!!

    MC6 G2 report.png

    MC6 G2 stats.png

    With the 2 TDs Thanley the Catcher gained a level and rolled 4+4 and took Guard. Let's see how long he lives.

    I also had over 100k in gold after forgetting to buy an Apo before this match and considered the Reroll first but ended up buying the Apothecary.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
    Regor likes this.
  4. Brody

    Brody Active Member

    Messages:
    543
    Country Flag:
    I have never played wood elves, but I have played a decent amount of Delf and Helf. I would say Dark Elves are the most forgiving, coming out of the gate with 4 block blitzers, and witches who have dodge. I've seen most Welf have treeman, as it creates an advantage on the LOS. Right out of the gates you played two teams that play elves well, in that of dorfs. Utilizing speed is key, along with refraining from brawling unless you get a few easy blocks. Passing between players early in turns may be advisable if you are a safe distance away, but rangy teams make that too scary to pull off imo. I know with wood elf, being AV7 all around the board, you want to pick up dodge before block on linemen. I am not the best elf player by a long shot, but just sharing some insight.
     
    sbr32 likes this.
  5. sbr32

    sbr32 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,066
    Location:
    US West Coast (GMT-8)
    Cyanide Username:
    sbr32
    Country Flag:
    Nice, thanks for the insight.

    I noticed almost all of the high ranked CCL Wood Elf teams had Treemen, and the couple I have played against in the BC2 did as well. I will have to think about that a bit.

    I almost always pick the ball up with a 0SPP Line Elf and then pass it off to the Catcher or a War Dancer but I'm not confident enough yet to do much more than that.
     
  6. sbr32

    sbr32 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,066
    Location:
    US West Coast (GMT-8)
    Cyanide Username:
    sbr32
    Country Flag:
    Game 3. Munch Spoon 6, MD 3

    I had a better feeling about this game than the previous two, though still not very confident in what I am doing.

    I am curious what people think about the bolded part, there is an image under the spoiler

    __________________________________

    Wussies in Training 1 :: The IKEA Catalogue 1

    Norse got 2 Journeymen and my Wood Elves 1; with a 20K TV difference there were no other Inducements.

    The Norse elected to kick off and the Wood Elves engaged in a rather unorthodox elf stall that included failing a dodge to leave my WD ball carrier exposed and the Norse picking up the ball and running all the way to the other end of the field. Once the Runner got almost to the end line I made 2 GFIs for an assist, then a Leap+Dodge Blitz to injure the Norse Runner. After a couple of 1D Blocks worked the War Dancer failed the 3+ pickup. On the next Norse turn the Yehtee (I could write an entire paragraph about the failures of this Yehtee during the game, definitely Least Valuable Player) rolled Both Downx2 on a Blitz which wasn't rerolled; both the Elf lineman and the Yehtee were KOed.

    This freed the War Dancer up for a 3+ Dodge, 3+ Pickup, 2+ Dodge (used Doge skill), 2+ Dodge 4+ Pass to the other War Dancer who was marked by an Urferwerfer. The WD made the catch and dodge for the score on T8! Nothing of note happened on the Norse T8.

    The Yehtee and a rookie Line Elf woke up from their naps, while 2 other Line Elves stayed KOed and dead respectively. With the injured Runner that left it 9-10 on the second half kickoff.

    A kick very deep into the right corner of the end zone and a Blitz! event made the Elves very happy and they flooded the right flank to attack the ball. The Norse made some nifty moves to respond but failed a relatively meaningless (to my eyes at least) GFI with their last player to act. Now it was time for the Elf BS to play out. A War Dancer Blitz (with an assist that got surfed next turn :() cleared one obstacle and the other War Dancer Leaped over the other, but then snake eyed the first of 4 2+ rolls to get the ball and score. Besides the failure to score this was unfortunate because the War Dancer was on the ground right next to the ball and a whole horde of Norsemen were on their way to clean up both messes, though the Yehtee continued his run of sadness by BHing himself on another Both Downx2.

    I think I might have screwed up the next turn. The Prone War Dancer had 4 Norse around him and 3 of those had tackle zones on the ball as well. I think I should have attempted the 5+ Dodge, 5+ Pick up with the assumption that I would have an advantage with a thrown in ball in a 8 Elf vs 9 Norsemen situation. Instead I put my other War Dancer in a bad position then failed a Dodge before I stood the War Dancer back up. This bad position let a blitzing Urferwerfer push-push the War Dancer to the sideline, he was then surrounded and pushed out of bounds. The Prone WD was Stunned on a foul that turn, then KO'ed on another foul the next. That left 5 Rookie Line Elves (1 Loner) and a Guard Catcher to stop the Norse ball carrier; they made a valiant effort but a couple more KOs officially sealed the already sealed deal.

    MS6 MD3 T10.png

    Enough players woke up from KO (including War Dancer and Catcher) for an attempt at the Juan Turner but it was foiled on the second block attempt.

    MS6 MD3 report.png

    MS6 MD3 stats.png

    A Line Elf with 5SPP completed a pass and a Line Elf with 1SPP got the MVP so I got 2 levels on Rookie Linemen this game. Both War Dancers came in with 2SPP and finished with 5SPP so hopefully I will get levels on them next game.

    Dilfin rolled an 11 and took +AG while Endala rolled normal and took Kick.

    I only got 20K in winnings but that put me at exactly 100k so I bought my 3rd reroll, which should help out.
     
  7. sbr32

    sbr32 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,066
    Location:
    US West Coast (GMT-8)
    Cyanide Username:
    sbr32
    Country Flag:
    MS6 MD3 roster.png

    I'm pretty happy with how things have gone the first 3 games of Elf-ing, even with a record of 0-2-1. I have an Apo, 3 RRs, a guard Catcher, 2 healthy War Dancers both with 5SPP, a Kick Line Elf, an AG5 Line Elf and only 1 permanent injury - a move bust on a rookie Line Elf. I only have 9 players and 0 gold but I assume that will be the state of things for the foreseeable future.

    Now it's time to think about how the roster will fill out and shape up, assuming no positional deaths or retirements.

    To Tree or not to Tree, that is the first question I suppose. I'll have to think on it but I think I would rather go without. Unless that is dumb.

    Where does the Thrower(s) come into play, or does he at all? I'm thinking off the top of my head I would go another Catcher than the Thrower. Or should I switch that around since the Catchers *should* level faster than the Thrower.

    Probably thinking too far ahead here and will get all my important dudes killed next game.
     
  8. Corkir

    Corkir Member

    Messages:
    58
    Country Flag:
    The tree is a marginal choice. Not remotely worth it unless you will be playing the team for some time, and of little use over the course of a game. However it does significantly reduce lino turnover and provides a solid midfield anchor point. I generally run with one once my team has a solid foundation, and certainly by the time i am hitting spiralling expenses and cant afford to be replacing as many linos.

    The thrower is a late buy for me, but a very useful plan b to have. Wood elves are a running team first but in those games where you snowball a thrower is a must to spread the field. He always helps on the one turners and end to end defensive scores too. Normally i get my thrower after the second catcher and tree, but as you have been distracted by the guard on your first catcher i would probably be looking at the third catcher first... although it does depend what you decide to do with that ag5 lino. Clearly you need to focus spp on him for a while so your positionals are going to be neglected, and you may well decide to give him the ball retriever role, in which case he is basically swapping roles with your first catcher.

    First golden rule for me is never let your treasury get that low. You always want enough cash to be within touching distance of replacing a dancer. Think long and hard before dipping below a reserve in the 70/80k region. Threat to the ball is your main means of mitigating damage.
     
    sbr32 likes this.
  9. Gio

    Gio Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Cochabamba, Bolivia
    Country Flag:
    I like having a Tree. On one hand, it absorbs hits on the LOS and allows the Linemen to Dodge out of danger easier; on the other hand, although it's MV is low and this means he can seldom get to where he is needed, he becomes a haven where your team can find some safety. If the other team tries to bring him down, it means they have 4-5 players who are not chasing your frail AV 7 guys; so yes... a Treeman can make a difference... until he falls down or Takes root (though the latter is not that big of a deal).

    I'm also a big Thrower enthusiast. First, he is ST 3 and thus doesn't need as much babysitting as a catcher. Furthermore, Catchers level up quickly (even more so if you have a Thrower) so it makes sense to skill up a Thrower first; and you can build a dedicated Thrower or a defensive Thrower depending on your playstyle. I'm more oriented towards the dedicated Thrower with Accurate, Safe Throw, Block and Strong Arm if you're lucky; a dedicated Thrower can really open up the field and turn any of your elves into scoring threats. A defensive Thrower may be built as a ball retriever with Blodge, Sure hands and perhaps Leap. An AG increase is also fantastic for any of them and they can also choose Leader to get a cheap RR.

    I play very conservatively and, to me, a good turn is one in which no elf is unnecessarily left next to an opponent. Leaving them just one square away is more than enough to slow them down, it reduces combat to only one blitz and it forces your opponent to make a mistake trying to go through them.

    Just my twopence.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
    sbr32 likes this.
  10. crimsonsun

    crimsonsun Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,793
    Location:
    Kent, Uk
    Cyanide Username:
    crimsonsun
    Country Flag:
    hmm my thoughts:

    Treeman - Against non Claw teams the tree reduces damage taken on wood elf sides by a huge amount over the course of the season, even better it provides grab, which allows a 1ttd without using your blitz. Its a real winner.

    Catchers build two as defensive sacking/stealing and two out and out scorers.

    Thrower not only does he reduce your early reroll use but also allows fast ball recovery and access to passing skills.

    Ag5 line elf, you have options with him though at this stage I'm not sure I'd have taken him, its a lot of tv and you don't get much from it. Also you've got an injured elf without spp, fire that git, your using loners anyway so why worry about another one, better to fire him and go with a fresh one when you can afford to bring the whole squad up to 11+.

    Final thoughts, well your next game is going to screw you up as your going to get soundly thrashed. :D
     
    sbr32 likes this.
  11. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

    Messages:
    3,167
    Country Flag:
    I would also take the tree. It reduces the number of hits on the LoS and gives grab as stated above.
    However it also restricts your opponents movement.
    By holding the centre of the pitch it encourages them to go down 1 side and the tree being in the middle makes it a lot harder for them to switch sides.
    That said he is not worth it against other elf teams.
    I would buy the tree 1st then a 2nd catcher followed by the thrower.(Actually I would have started with the tree at the expense of a reroll but that is another question).
     
    sbr32 likes this.
  12. Veggente85

    Veggente85 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Location:
    Central Europe (GMT+2)
    Steam Username:
    VeggenteBBT
    Cyanide Username:
    Veggente
    Country Flag:
    For 120-140k you have a mb hit on your offensive drive, some forced dodge for your opponent, grab for one turn attempts and 1 less linelf on the line of scrimmage. Totally worth it.

    I never take the thrower with the WE. With the rule of 5, you can protect only 5 good players. Among those, there are for sure the 2 wardancers and 2 catchers. The last spot is generally taken by your first "StarLino" (e.g. a blodge guard, an agi 5, a str 4, etc.). So the thrower is often the "one too much" in your lineup.
     
    sbr32 likes this.
  13. Ravers

    Ravers Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,293
    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Cyanide Username:
    Ravers
    Country Flag:
    Disclaimer. I don't play Wood Elves. I'll look at it from the other side, ie playing against Wood Elves. Would I rather you have a tree or not?? Almost always I would rather you did not have the tree. He is a big lump of Str 6 Stand Firm Wood which takes up the middle of the pitch and gives elves a 'safe zone' where I do not want to go. Totally prefer you don't take a tree:cool:. Throwers, meh I'd have one but no big deal either way.
     
  14. TravelScrabble

    TravelScrabble Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,399
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada (UTC -4)
    Steam Username:
    travelscrabble
    Cyanide Username:
    travelscrabble
    Country Flag:
    To play devil's advocate. When I'm playing elves I don't mind the tree at all (unless he's MA 3) that big lump is just going to be chasing shadows until he roots, effectively reducing you to 10 men.

    But when playing woodies myself, I take the tree.
     
    Ilgoth and sbr32 like this.
  15. crimsonsun

    crimsonsun Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,793
    Location:
    Kent, Uk
    Cyanide Username:
    crimsonsun
    Country Flag:
    I agree with pretty much everything said in this post except the thrower, simply because I believe the thrower gives you more options for delivering the ball forwards. A stat boosted line elf is better than a thrower, but not better than a stat boosted one. I feel for the cost of 20k a skill (pass -30k on the line elf) and a additional skill table to utilise is worth more to the team on a player by player basis. Now this becomes a lot muddier when stats get boosted of course but a Ag 5 thrower is a massive offensive threat and allows you to hold the ball back for longer before committing to a touch down, making it far easier to stall.

    The tree is amazing and while I'd agree its not great against agile teams when playing defence it is great against them when playing offence and having natural strength skill access is just something Elf teams don't otherwise have so it shouldn't be underestimated.

    Personally the reason I feel Wood Elves are so damn good is because they have access to every skill table except mutations and they have enough skills on a new roster to make even 0 reroll builds work.
     
    sbr32 likes this.
  16. Veggente85

    Veggente85 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Location:
    Central Europe (GMT+2)
    Steam Username:
    VeggenteBBT
    Cyanide Username:
    Veggente
    Country Flag:
    Check the chances of a +stats on your only thrower and of a +stats on any of your 5+ linelfs... I always end with my thrower on the "kill me t1, mr. POMB" spot of my lineup :p
     
  17. crimsonsun

    crimsonsun Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,793
    Location:
    Kent, Uk
    Cyanide Username:
    crimsonsun
    Country Flag:
    However 1 thrower + 1 catcher equals spp farming from game 1... you put spp on him faster than anything else in the game except a high elf or pro elf combo doing the same thing.
     
  18. tys123

    tys123 Courier Staff

    Messages:
    3,167
    Country Flag:
    More importantly a line elf needs a double for pass , accurate , safe throw and leader.
    With a thrower you get an extra useful skill for 20K and you can't get a great passing game without one.

    If that doesn't convince you then a thrower with leader saves 10K over a line elf and a reroll and you get pass on top of that.
     
    crimsonsun likes this.
  19. Veggente85

    Veggente85 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Location:
    Central Europe (GMT+2)
    Steam Username:
    VeggenteBBT
    Cyanide Username:
    Veggente
    Country Flag:
    A thrower with leader doesn't save you a rr if you can't cut your third rr because you have to systematically place your thrower in an exposed position when defending.

    Btw, if you play a proper passing game (i.e. one that requires only pass + catch + eventually a dodge to score), pass is not necessary given that, if you pass to a catcher, you only need a non-skill rerollable roll (on which you can use your reroll). An agi 5 lineman with dodge can then perfectly do the job.
     
  20. crimsonsun

    crimsonsun Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,793
    Location:
    Kent, Uk
    Cyanide Username:
    crimsonsun
    Country Flag:
    This is what I said in the post previous to the one you referenced.
    I think at this point we can agree that we are of different opinions on this matter, despite understanding why the other feels differently and that no amount of rhetoric is going to change that opinion atm.