Ogre Overview:
The Ogres on an Ogre team make it the only team in the game that can have six ST5 players on the pitch as part of their normal roster. They are also highly armoured and hard to knock out which can make them an imposing opposition. They are fairly slow though and have fairly low agility as well. Ogres are also very expensive and suffer from forgetting where they are or what they are meant to be doing at times. This can leave big holes in their defensive and offensive lines. Going toe to toe with them might not be the best strategy when you can bide your time for an opening.
With that in mind it an Ogre coach should be looking to counteract that and thankfully the Ogres on the Ogre team don’t suffer from having Loner and can use team rerolls as freely as any other player. This can help counteract their unreliability somewhat, though if you are using all six Ogres every turn, on average you should count on at least one of them going Bonehead and losing their Tackle Zone.
On the pitch it would be usual to build your ST5 players into something of a hitting machine or a road block. Ogre teams have six of the brutes though so you can diversify a little, though bear in mind Ogres aren’t going to be massive SPP generators and will skill fairly slowly.
You could consider creating a ball carrier as Snotlings are fairly weak and fragile, despite them having better agility. An Ogre is going to be fairly hard to get the ball from as well compared to a Snotling. Perhaps a dedicated thrower could come in handy, not just for passing the ball (not that you have much in the way of receivers) but for throwing team mates as well. You can turn passing into another weapon which gives you a bit more range, or perhaps a pseudo second blitz in a turn. A more general option is to build them to be more mobile than you would with a solitary Ogre on the team. Getting them tied up by a cheap opposing Lineman doesn’t make best use of their high cost.
Standard Ogre Development:
- Normal: Break Tackle, Guard, Juggernaut / Stand Firm / Grab
- Doubles: Block, Dodge
- Stat Increase: +AG +MV
I think this is probably the best way to develop and Ogre if you roll a normal skill to start with. Break Tackle will stop them getting pinned down and let you move more easily. If you can’t dodge with them then you aren’t going to advance down the pitch with them, or be able to blitz targets easily. Getting tied up will also make it easier for the other team to attack your fragile Snotling team mates. Follow that up with Guard, it can help protect the Snotlings, make it harder for other Guard heavy teams to stand toe to toe and also present more three dice block opportunities. After that you are running out of choices with only strength skill access though Juggernaut can make up for the lack of Block when blitzing, or cancel out Wrestle on low armoured players and lets you take them down with you. Stand Firm can also be great, especially as you can only blitz with one a turn) it will slow down advancing cages, tie up opposing players and helps you control the space on the pitch. The last alternative would be Grab, this can open up space, free up team mates from tackle zones or lets you move opposing players next to a team mate to get hit again that turn. Cancelling out Side Step can also come in handy when blocking or blitzing an opponent.
For doubles it is very hard to look past Block, it makes them more reliable, and will also keep them on their feet more. Combed with Juggernaut you can go after those Wrestle players as well. Dodge can be good to follow up with that, AG2 dodging can work fine and if you have Break Tackle as well it can make them surprisingly mobile. Stat increases I would say it might be advisable to ignore strength increases and take the double skill. The team is starved of general skill access on anyone normally and your Ogres are usually stronger than the opposition already. An agility increase is very helpful and makes ball handling better, if you get it early though go for a more specialised build. Movement is also going to help as the team is rather slow.
More on Page 2…
On a Ball Carrier Ogre I can’t agree with Sure Hands over Block. Sure it protects you from push but it only works vs Strip Ball players. Block protects your from Both Down and applies vs Block players (which are far more common). At the same time it helps the Ogre in other situations as well.
Sure Hands does provide a Reroll but still… I just can’t see not taking Block.
With the issue of Bonehead losing you tackle zones and Titchy meaning the Snotlings can’t form a hard to dodge into cage, it is fairly routine for an opponent to get a blitz on your ball carrier at some point.
If they have Strip Ball and you have Block, then the ball is going loose 44.4% of the time without a reroll even if you get to choose. Or 69.1% if they use a reroll. If you have Sure Hands instead of Block, you go down 25% of the time or 43.8% with a reroll.
With the lack of core skills across the team, expensive players, expensive rerolls and having to contend with Bonehead, that reroll to pick up can also be invaluable. Your players are also slow, so using more movement to have to recover the ball afterwards (assuming they haven’t already got it) is also unwanted.
Sure Block will come in very handy in many situations, though that is where the other Ogres come in to help. Ball handling and keeping it safe is one of the biggest issues that faces an Ogre team, Sure Hands goes a long way to mitigating that problem. Even if you do recover it, you aren’t likely to have moved far and may quite likely face the same problem again the following turn.
If you roll a second double on one who already has Block, then you may be wise to take Sure Hands on him as well. Having two options for picking the ball up on slow and low agility players probably isn’t a bad thing, though an AG3 Ogre carrying the ball gives a bit more flexibility.
Say your Ogre has Sure Hands. The attacker has Block and Strip Ball. On a Defender Down, Defender Stumbles, and Both Down result you lose the ball. Only on a Push or an Attack Down do you keep it.
Now say your Ogre has Block. The attacker has Block and Strip Ball. On a Defender Down, Defender Stumbles, and a Push you lose the Ball. Only on a Both Down and Attacker Down do you keep it.
Now sure that’s an advantage of Sure Hands (since the Push is more likely to come up) but at the same time the push is also the lesser of the “bad” outcomes. At least your Ogre is still on his feet and near the ball. Getting knocked down not only slows him significantly and removes his tackle zone but also put forth the chance for him to get hurt (even just a stun would be terrible in that spot).
The Sure Hands reroll is nice but it just means you now must pick up the ball with that guy making your more suseptable to your enemy marking your ball Ogre or for your ball ogre to come down with Bone Head. And Finally when you don’t have the ball at all the Sure Hands is frankly useless. You can’t even be sure that guy will be free to pick up the ball when it comes loose. Block is of course excellent on an Ogre on defense.
I can agree with you that Sure Hands as your second Double is a wise pick but for the first? I’m still not convinced.
I gave you the numbers, Sure Hands will keep you in possession more often. If that doesn’t convince you then nothing is going to!
Of course Block is more useful when you don’t have the ball, but keeping hold of the ball is a big part of scoring and if you can’t do that then doesn’t matter how good your defence is if you can’t score when you do get the ball.
At the end of the day, neither way is “right” though and if something is working for you then by all means keep on doing it until you are shown otherwise.
I think if youre first skill is +AG and then next is a double, its got to be sure hands if you want to develop a ball carrying Ogre.. AG3 fails a lot when picking the ball up (I know the pain after playing with Lizards, those damn skinks never pick the ball up!!). The reroll is far more important than the safety against strip ball. Block would be a good second double.
I am putting the numbers down for one die blocking on the ball carrier. It is difficult for anyone to get more than a one die block on the Ogre with a Block/Strip Ball player hitting.
If you have Sure Hands, it is 50% likely you are going down, 75% if they still have a reroll available.
If you have Block you have a 33% chance of going down, 55% with a reroll. You have a 66% chance of losing the ball, 89% with a reroll.
Sure Hands gives you reroll on the one or two turns you need to pick up the ball, though a team reroll can replicate this – though it can be used up early. With Block you are less likely to go down (more likely to be able to go after the ball carrier to get the ball back). You are less likely to go down on all the blocks that will happen in the game. There will be far more blocks in the game than times you can pick up the ball with the Sure Hands Ogre + the times he gets hit with Strip Ball combined in my experience.
Due to Sure Hands able to be rerolled with a team reroll and the block ability not being able to be replicated, I have to say Block is the better choice. I try and score with my Ogres to get them all skilled up as well, which Sure Hands is counterproductive to but Block is great for.
On offense, get the ball to an Ogre and knock down as many people as you can. Try and force dodges with a Snot screen, don’t be afraid to use your blitz with the ball carrier to get him free and away from other players. Try and lower the amount of players and burn their rerolls trying risky moves to get the ball away.
On defense, pound them as hard as you can, especially soft players you can reach. Your goal is to try and get them scoring as soon as possible or opening a hole to their ball handler.
As for skills, since I play in a bashy environment I take Guard first. More 3 die blocks to prevent burning rerolls and knock their players out of the game. Less chance of spending the game picking up your Ogres against other bashy teams, which is really bad news. If they receive and put most of your Ogres on the ground you are in a very bad place. Ogres need to be hitting things.
Ogre Skills
Sure Hands is a sure thing… Block i think is over rated with this team yes it helps you with staying up the problem is by the time you get block on ya ogres so does everybody else and won,t help you getting the opposition down… so there are better options than block to take.. dodge is one and far better unless they have tackle your going down the same odds as taking block or dodge… another reason i would recommend dodge is the break tackle and dodge work well defensively as well as attack… block is ok but it does not offer you the offensive option that dodge can when you need to move the ball… and also if they get a hit on the ogre, you just want to have it that whatever they choose its a 2 dice block up hill with dodge make the ogres better to survive if i manage to get another double on a dodge ogre then you have the option to have a blodger or the Sure hands Dodge Ogre with BT… the options are yours to take
instead of taking block i would take Tackle as well this team is about offensive capability and getting the hits in block is a trap,,, the only time i would really really take it as maybe a 3rd skill if you get that far, for the anchor ogre with block stand firm guard, that ways hes the guy in the middle taking the hits giving the hits etc…
You need to look at the class of ogres you want to create… you can create the killer i personally would use break tackle juggernaut and if i get a double Frenzy that would be my killer because quantity of dice to knock over opponents later in league matches is whats key… cause if you go ogres you are always going to have trouble with blodgers unless you take skills to off set them like frenzy and tackle…
but again doubles are needed for that…
Also you need the Throwing Ogre Break Tackle Strong arm this helps again on the offensive front… building this team defensively is not really an option because of the snotlings they are just too weak to contain the opposition… so all you can do with them is fling them and foul with them and keep the ogres from being out numbered. the odd catch to hand off to the snotling beings flinged helps with sure feet…
i hope this will give you some insight into using ogres… To build them conventionally like any other team you will fail… i have played ogres alot in the last 4 years and have tried everything… what i have mentioned has worked its not always a winning formula but it gives you a fighting chance to be competitive…
Solid input, thanks!
I would like to warn everyone that Ogre ball-carriers can be very frustrating players for a coach. Having a heavily caged Ogre carrying the ball one field away from the endzone on turn 16 does not mean a touchdown yet. If You have a re-roll left, You’re fairly safe, but there’ still 1/36 chance that Bone-head will strike, depriving You from Your rightfully earned points.
With many Ogre teams using the 2-1 grind tactics and often struggling for a 1-1 draw, this means that choosing a Snotling for ball-carrying duty (or picking a more reliable team!) might be the better idea for people lacking composure under pressure.
I recently competed in a reasonably balanced 10 team league with my first Ogre Team – “Clueless Clodhoppers”
I gave a good account of myself, finishing 4th, but I suffered a pair of heavy defeats at the hands of 2 elf teams (pro and high). I think my ogres may have been accountable for this; I suffered badly from bonehead, and since both games were early in the league, the block on elven blitzers. Presuming that I roll no doubles, how best could I increase my ogres’ reliability when blocking?
Not really much you can do, Juggernaut can help but only when Blitzing which you can only do once per turn.
Other than that save your rerolls for the hits. Their hitting reliability isn’t something that you can really alter without getting Block or Pro. You just have to prioritise what will happen if you fail Boneheads and if you can then cover the hole with another player and keep try to manage your reroll use each turn.
You can also use Snotlings / other Ogres (especially those with Guard) as assists to get 3-dice blocks on those pesky elves. This increases the knock down rate from 55,6% to 70,4%, if the target doesn’t have have Dodge. If Dodge is present it still gives You 42,1% instead of 30,6% with a 2-dice Block.
But, more importantly, it reduces the turnover rate from 11,1% to 3,7% (1 in 27 instead of 1 in 9). You can find all the numbers in Coach’s blocking % rate article.
I’ll be honest – I found the ST increase too good to turn down. When combined with Break Tackle, he has been reliably dodging into the centre of cages (3+) and turning ball carriers into a form of paste. He is missing out on Block (but who isn’t and two of my Ogres rolled this for their first skill, so I’m still pretty content).
An ogre team without blockers is not viable after about 1300pts. Ogres are probably the single hardest team to use. Having blockers goes a long way to mitigating this.
Having an ogre ball handler is crucial as snots will inevitably be crushed. Ideally you will roll +1 agility. If so, then the debate above about the merits of sure hands and block are for you to decide. But if you do not roll doubles, consider stand firm. That ogre can then run up the sideline, guarded by two ogres. Obviously this play is much easier than an ogre cage as it only requires 3 successful bonehead rolls instead of 5.
If you already have a dedicated ball handler and one of your ogre blockers rolls doubles again, you must take tackle. Having a block/tackle ogre as your fullback is the best defence an ogre team can have. Break tackle should always be taken with this build if a normal skill is rolled.
If you are very lucky and a blocker rolls +Str, then do not pass it up (as if you would). But if you don’t yet have block, take that instead.
I have a level 5 Ogre with Str 6, Block, Tackle and Break Tackle. He is terrifying.
I would just like to add that sure hands is very important for the simple fact that ogre teams can sometimes spend an entire drive trying to pick up a ball. go sure hands asap!
Stand Firm is an easier (STR skill) way of protecting oneself from strip ball. Strip Ball required an actual push to work. No push == no strip ball.
Unfortunately you are mistaken. Stand Firm will not protect you from Strip Ball as you only need to get a push result on the block dice for it to work. The same for getting a second block with the Frenzy skill. It is what is on the dice that matters, not if the player actually gets pushed back.
You can see this stated on page 23 of the Competition Rules Pack under the Skills section.
Hey, how about multiple block would that work somehow?
With all those ST5 players it can work well, though it depends on what your common opposition are. If you are facing other teams who have plenty of ST4 players and / or lots of Guard then Multiple Block may not get much use. It is also hard for Ogres to get Block as well which makes it more risky.
Even against teams who have a lot of ST3 players, you will be doing one die blocks (again risky even with Block). Though there is a good chance they will either have Guard on some players, or are high agile players and won’t leave you in the situation to even use Multiple Block.
I have a hundred hours or so of gameplay on the cyanide game. I started up a new ogre campaign, to try it instead of the normal ones I already like. I am really worried about Bonehead, so I’m thinking of taking pro when I get doubles. I’ve read all of these posts and I’m still leaning towards taking it over block. I tend to roll Lots of 1’s. Has anyone here , done what I am trying to do? Also if I give most of my ogres stand firm, could I viably use the sidelines as a cage? Setting up a line up against the sidelines then put my snottling against the sideline?
I wouldn’t take Stand Firm for just that reason though you could certainly try it. I would think there are probably more useful skills that will help overall though I’ve not much experience with Ogres. Try looking on the forum, there is a wealth of content over there.
I did play BB in the past with necromantic. I decided to use some ogres from my fantasy army and try it out. When reading this site, I was expecting more what to do when on the feel instead of which skill to use. I don’t know much about them and try to find people that played with this team and share some advice.
I would play with either 4 ogres and 4 re-rolls or 5 ogres and 2 re-rolls. Of course 7 snotlings. Apothecary? not sure.
This is what I was thinking about doing: Just grab the snotlings and throw them at the ball carrier and try to take out some by bouncing around. Would that work?
At this point, I would use any advice possible so I can make this team work.
Thanks
Hi OgreDan, for that kind of discussion you’d be better off signing up and making a thread on the forum. Good Luck!