Harkon not Roxanna ?

[Athanatos]

I’m going to the Stranglebowl 2 tournament later this month and wanted to try out a suboptimal list with a Star Player and was going to go with Roxanna ( see my other thread, Roxanna or Hubris) and had thought it was a 1.2 roster plus 4 skill. Just checked the rules and it is only 1.1 !!

This makes taking Roxanna very tight ( basically her, 10 line Elves, a Runner and 1 RR with 20k left, not enough to upgrade a LE to a Blitzer)

However if I took Harkon I’d be able to take 1RR with 8 Line Elves along with the Runner with 2 Blitzers.

For the 4 skills, obviously start with Leader on the Runner; what would be best next Dodge on both Blitzers and Wrestle on a lineelf?

Thank in advance for your thoughts .

Cheers

David

 

[Netsmurf]

I’m going to the Stranglebowl 2 tournament later this month and wanted to try out a suboptimal list with a Star Player and was going to go with Roxanna ( see my other thread, Roxanna or Hubris) and had thought it was a 1.2 roster plus 4 skill. Just checked the rules and it is only 1.1 !!

This makes taking Roxanna very tight ( basically her, 10 line Elves, a Runner and 1 RR with 20k left, not enough to upgrade a LE to a Blitzer)

However if I took Harkon I’d be able to take 1RR with 8 Line Elves along with the Runner with 2 Blitzers.

For the 4 skills, obviously start with Leader on the Runner; what would be best next Dodge on both Blitzers and Wrestle on a lineelf?

Thank in advance for your thoughts .

Cheers

David

This is Dark Elfs? No witches is strange

 

[tys123]

Also Harkon isn't great.
Sidewinder gets you an extra 10K so you can change a blitzer to a witch if you have the model and is more useful on the pitch.
However with only 1.1 no stars is the better team.

 

[Athanatos]

So essentially, I have to go with one RR and a Runner with Leader if I want a Star and then I can have Harkon with 2 Blitzers or Edrill with a Witch and a Blitzer both with 8 Line Elves.
Without the Star I have more options such as:

Option A. 1 RR; Runner with Leader; 4 Blitzers; 2 WE; and 5 Line Elves - Skill both Witches (Block and Wrestle?) and one Blitzer (Dodge or Tackle?)

Option B. 2RR; 2 Blitzers; 2 WE; 2 Runners and 6 Line Elves -Skill both Witches (Block and Wrestle?) and both Blitzers (Dodge/Dodge or Dodge/Tackle?)

Option C. 2RR; 4 Blitzers; 2 WE; 2 Runners and 3 Line Elves - Skill both Witches (Block and Wrestle?) and both Blitzers (Dodge/Dodge or Dodge/Tackle?)

Thanks for your advice
David

 

[Veggente85]

So essentially, I have to go with one RR and a Runner with Leader if I want a Star and then I can have Harkon with 2 Blitzers or Edrill with a Witch and a Blitzer both with 8 Line Elves.
Without the Star I have more options such as:

Option A. 1 RR; Runner with Leader; 4 Blitzers; 2 WE; and 5 Line Elves - Skill both Witches (Block and Wrestle?) and one Blitzer (Dodge or Tackle?)

Option B. 2RR; 2 Blitzers; 2 WE; 2 Runners and 6 Line Elves -Skill both Witches (Block and Wrestle?) and both Blitzers (Dodge/Dodge or Dodge/Tackle?)

Option C. 2RR; 4 Blitzers; 2 WE; 2 Runners and 3 Line Elves - Skill both Witches (Block and Wrestle?) and both Blitzers (Dodge/Dodge or Dodge/Tackle?)

Thanks for your advice
David

Without the stars seems better to me. Option A. BTW, are you sure that you can buy starplayers as 11th player? I see often ruleset that allow them only if you already have 11 players.

 

[Athanatos]

Without the stars seems better to me. Option A. BTW, are you sure that you can buy starplayers as 11th player? I see often ruleset that allow them only if you already have 11 players.

Thanks for your reply!
Which skill options with Option A?

WRT stars and player numbers, yes, it’s 11 plus the star. My post does have 11 (8+2+runner) ; I forgot to count the runner several times myself when prepping the post and nearly changed it a few times!

 

[tys123]

Option D:
2 witches , 4 blitzers , 1 runner , 4 line elves , 1 RR , Apoth , 2 FF
Leader , Block Witch , 2* dodge blitzer

IMO Apoth is better than a lineman.
Use on 1st BH player and for 50K you get a player worth between 70K and 130K.
If you don't get a BH 1st half use it on a KO 2nd half.

You could get a 2nd runner instead of a lineman but that means another AV7 player to get hit.

 

[Athanatos]

Option D:
2 witches , 4 blitzers , 1 runner , 4 line elves , 1 RR , Apoth , 2 FF
Leader , Block Witch , 2* dodge blitzer

IMO Apoth is better than a lineman.
Use on 1st BH player and for 50K you get a player worth between 70K and 130K.
If you don't get a BH 1st half use it on a KO 2nd half.

You could get a 2nd runner instead of a lineman but that means another AV7 player to get hit.

Thanks Tys, interesting advice; it’s good to get hints on how to use an apothecary in a tournament (I presume the resurrection formula changes it quite a bit from a league situation) Am I right that in a tournament you don’t use it on dead as it only changes it to BH so still lost for the game, whereas using it on BH changes it to KO?

Also why is 2 FF better than an assistant coach and cheerleader?

Cheers
David

 

[tys123]

If you use apoth on Dead , perm or MNG you have a 50% chance of getting them back so may be worth it if it is an important player. However BH in 1st half is always worth it as it put them into the reserves. So yes a completely different use than in a league.

2FF or coach and cheerleader there is some debate on.
The coach and cheerleader gets +1 on chance of reroll on a 6 or 8 on kick off.
2 FF increases the odds on you getting the FAME bonus. That is 2D6 + FF at start with highest getting +1 or +2 if double opponents score.
But having FAME helps with thrown rocks and pitch invasions as well as the extra reroll for 6 or 8.
I prefer the FF as if you get a pitch invasion having the FAME bonus is huge.
Thrown rock is a 42% chance of a player being removed from the pitch so a +1 on that is also good.

 

[Veggente85]

I like option D, but I would probably take wrestle on the witch for sacking (it acts pretty much like tackle against blodge).

 

[Athanatos]

So the Apothecary acts a bit like a twelfth player. Seems like Option D is the one to go for (note to self: do not change a line elf plus FF to the Assassin just because you have the model converted and painted!)

Since I have only one RR, taking one of my 4 available skills as Leader is a given. This leaves 3 skills for the 6 remaining positionals. Presumably it is better to skill 2 Blitzers and one Witch than 2 Witches and one Blitzer?
In which case Blodge two Blitzers and blodge/wrodge one Witch rather than anything else such as Sidestep

Cheers
David

 

[Veggente85]

So the Apothecary acts a bit like a twelfth player. Seems like Option D is the one to go for (note to self: do not change a line elf plus FF to the Assassin just because you have the model converted and painted!)

Since I have only one RR, taking one of my 4 available skills as Leader is a given. This leaves 3 skills for the 6 remaining positionals. Presumably it is better to skill 2 Blitzers and one Witch than 2 Witches and one Blitzer?
In which case Blodge two Blitzers and blodge/wrodge one Witch rather than anything else such as Sidestep

Cheers
David

The assassin would have been an option if he had at least av8...

The trend in ressurect for dark elves is to build as many blodge/wrodge as possible. Don't know if 2 skilled witches + 1 blitzer is better than 1 + 2. Probably more dodge is better than more block/wrestle because of mobility. And you still put something on one witch because you can't always protect both (or you can blitz only with one).

 

[Athanatos]

The assassin would have been an option if he had at least av8...

The trend in ressurect for dark elves is to build as many blodge/wrodge as possible. Don't know if 2 skilled witches + 1 blitzer is better than 1 + 2. Probably more dodge is better than more block/wrestle because of mobility. And you still put something on one witch because you can't always protect both (or you can blitz only with one).

The replies here (and my earlier Roxanna or Hubris thread where I first went down the rabbit hole of thinking Star) mainly recommend dodging the Blitzers before blocking the Witch.

I was asking as, since the witches are lower AV, maybe it is better to give them the protection first?


WRT the Assassin I think if he had higher movement to make Shaddowing better that would make him better; a good safety?

 

[tys123]

Witches are more easily injured. However blitzers are usually in the thick of the action while the AV7 players should be protected more so will take less hits. Witch goes at the back of the defensive columns while blitzers are at the front for example.

I would take 2 blodge blitzers as that way you have 5 players who can reliable block and 4 players that can reliably dodge to give assists.
You don't want to be in a position where you need to make 2D blocks without block skill or a dodge without dodge skill early in the turn so I prefer a 5/4 split rather than 6/3

 

[Athanatos]

Witches are more easily injured. However blitzers are usually in the thick of the action while the AV7 players should be protected more so will take less hits. Witch goes at the back of the defensive columns while blitzers are at the front for example.

I would take 2 blodge blitzers as that way you have 5 players who can reliable block and 4 players that can reliably dodge to give assists.
You don't want to be in a position where you need to make 2D blocks without block skill or a dodge without dodge skill early in the turn so I prefer a 5/4 split rather than 6/3

Thanks for the reply and would you give all three block or mix it up with Wrestle?

 

[tys123]

I would go block but @Veggente85 would go wrestle.
Against teams with lots of block then wrestle is definitely better ( dwarves and norse ) but in this format most teams will have over half the players without block.
It also depends on how you are planning on using the witch.
If you are using her more as a safety who sits behind your lines while most of the blitzes are done by blitzers then wrestle will be better as she is only going to blitz when you really need to take the player down and that player probably has block.
However if she is going to be your primary blitzer and hit linemen on the fringes and use frenzy to increase the chance of a knockdown then block is better.
It really depends on your play style.

 

[danton]

Option E:
2 witches , 3 blitzers , 1 runner , 5 line elves , 2 RR , Apoth
Wrestle Witch, Block Witch , 2* dodge blitzer (or 3 dodge blitzers and 1 witch with Wrestle)

I like dropping a blitzer, because that then gives you 50k spare instead of 20k, which means you can pick up the second re-roll and have a fourth Blodge player instead of Leader.

 

[Veggente85]

Option E:
2 witches , 3 blitzers , 1 runner , 5 line elves , 2 RR , Apoth
Wrestle Witch, Block Witch , 2* dodge blitzer (or 3 dodge blitzers and 1 witch with Wrestle)

I like dropping a blitzer, because that then gives you 50k spare instead of 20k, which means you can pick up the second re-roll and have a fourth Blodge player instead of Leader.

It doesn't seems bad.

 

[Athanatos]

Thank you very much for all your replies.
I like options D & E! Decisions decisions! And I only have today to decide (tomorrow is deadline for team submission)
I’m relatively inexperienced but do tend to blitz with a Witch as often as possible and having a Wrestle Witch as safety also seem good.

I think that means E, doesn’t it!

 

[Veggente85]

Thank you very much for all your replies.
I like options D & E! Decisions decisions! And I only have today to decide (tomorrow is deadline for team submission)
I’m relatively inexperienced but do tend to blitz with a Witch as often as possible and having a Wrestle Witch as safety also seem good.

I think that means E, doesn’t it!

In E, also consider to take a lineman instead of the runner. In fact, in defense you can only protect 5 players. Given that you don't want to expose an av7 like the runner, this forces you to expose a Blitzer (of which you already have only 3). In addition, with move 7, any Blitzer is equal to the runner as a ball carrier. At the end, the only "plus"of the runner is the access to leader...So no need to take him if you don't want leader.