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Skaven Gutter Runners

Blood Bowl Skaven Gutter Runner
Skaven Gutter Runner Overview:

Gutter Runners are the fastest players in the game and are also one of the best players available to any team. They are what makes the Skaven team good and you will find other teams going out of their way to kill them. Their downside is their low strength and armour which can make them fragile and you can expect opposing coaches to foul them at any opportunity. The good points are the high speed and agility that they possess, along with their access to mutations. They are also fairly reasonably priced as well like the rest of the Skaven players, which is good given you will probably need to replace them.

Beginner coaches often see their speed and agility and just think that they should be build to scoring touchdowns as quickly as possible. You can do this and they are very good at doing that, however I really don’t recommend to do so for a number of reasons. First of all, they will be hogging all the SPP of your teams, leaving their team mates often unskilled for ages. This will make your team very one dimensional and you will also lose large chunks of value at a time when one dies. If you fail at the attempt of the quick score you will often not have anything to fall back on, which may lead to a crippling defeat.

My recommendation is to use them to harass the ball carrier deep in the opponents half, if you can tie them up long enough, you can either force an error and then pick up the ball and score, or they run out of turns to get the ball down the pitch to score themselves. If you score every time you kick off to the other team then you will never lose a game and Skaven are one of the best teams equipped to do this. The fact you can cover the pitch really easily makes them great at defending despite their apparent weakness, utilise it well and you will learn why other teams curse them.

You need to learn not to be scared about using them to get stuck in as well, if you are timid with them and just try and overly protect them, then you aren’t making best use of their abilities. Other coaches are going to go after them anyway, so cause them lots of problems to deal with to make it harder for them to focus their efforts on this. Skaven coaches can’t get attached to their players, they will often die but the benefit the Gutter Runners have is that they can skill up quickly straight away. It shouldn’t be too hard to try and score two touchdowns with one in its first game so you can get a skill after the first match.

Blitzing Gutter Runner:

These are probably one of my favourite players to build in the entire game and in my opinion one of the keys to a succesful Skaven team. You need to build two of these guys and set them up one either side of the pitch when you are kicking off to the other team. Use them in tandem to go after the ball carrier  and knock the ball loose, perhaps then picking it up and scoring. Repeat this over and over and welcome to victory! Wrestle is the obvious first choice as it helps keep them alive and will also take down the opposing ball carrier which is their aim. Next up you can either go Side Step which helps protect the sideline and stops opposing players with Frenzy blitzing them off the pitch. It will also allow you to position them a square nearer the ball if they get blitzed straight away (which is likely) and will also allow you to stay next to the ball carrier when you reach him. Alternatively you can go for Dauntless which will make up for the low strength when you go to blitz the ball carrier, most ball carriers are ST3 so you shouldn’t fail it often and it isn’t the end of the day when it does fail. I prefer to get Side Step first because of its other benefits and try and use the other attacking gutter runner to assist the blitz. There are a whole load of skill choices you can take next, Leap would mean a lot less dodges to get there, or let you get in a cage easier, Tackle for those ball carriers with Dodge, or Strip Ball for those times a non Sure Hands opponent has the ball.

For doubles Horns makes a great choice to even up the blitz against ST3, probably not great if you already have Dauntless though, as these two skills no longer combine as they used to. Guard is also a nice choice for assisting the other attacking Gutter Runner to blitz and their mobility around the pitch is useful in lots of other spots as well. Two Heads will help if you need to dodge through some tackle zones to get to the ball carrier or perhaps Mighty Blow to make sure they stay down more often after you hit them. The stats you would like, +ST is obviously great and negates the need for Dauntless and perhaps makes Horns more desireable as he can then work alone a lot easier. +AG will again let you get where you want easier and also pick the ball up in tackle zones if it falls there, makes leap more desirable as well. +MV is preferred over the +AV, their ball carrier will have to be that bit more wary or stand a square further back and the armour won’t really make much difference in keeping them alive and won’t aid their ability in any way either.

Defensive Gutter Runners:
  • Normal: Block, Side Step, Diving Tackle, Tackle/Shadowing/Pass Block/Leap
  • Doubles: Guard/Nerves of Steel/Very Long Legs/Big Hand
  • Stat Increase: +ST, +AG, +MV

These guys are great for tying up the ball carrier, Block and Dodge combine well to keep them on their feet and like the other build Side Step will keep them next to their target. You can also tie up receiver in the same manner, though typically these guys can dodge away easier and Diving Tackle will make that harder. After that Tackle is useful as ball carriers and receivers often have Dodge, Shadowing makes great use of your high movement and will really prevent players getting away. Pass Block is also handy if you want to be able to cover more than one receiver.

For doubles again Guard can be useful, if you are stuck next to a target player, then a team mate can make use of your assist regardless of the other opposing players to go in and blitz. Nerves of Steel will let you still attempt intercepts at a 5+, whilst still marking the receiver to keep your other skills active. It also makes it very hard for the other team to stop you on offence as well if he is always an option. Very Long legs will give you a boost to intercept in the open and will compliment Pass Block as well as then making Leap more desirable. Big Hand is handy to have on one player as well to go and collect the ball in multiple tackle zones, this guy would also probably want Leap.

For stats +ST isn’t really that helpful to the build but you don’t turn it down and will keep him alive longer and give you someone else who can blitz long range. +AG will be great for intercepts, collecting loose balls and moving around generally and also in Pass Block Actions. +MV will combine with Shadowing brilliantly and also make your offence that bit harder to stop.

Continued on page 2…

44 Responses to Skaven Gutter Runners

  1. Thanatos July 24, 2009 at 10:44 am #

    Skaven were my first team and they remain my favourite, especially due to these guys. Where Dwarfs struggle to get across a pitch sideways, the Gutter Runners can be almost anywhere you want on the pitch in no more than two moves.

    Another use for Gutter Runners, is if you start with a Rat Ogre and are short of money so don’t bother with a Skaven Thrower, Gutter Runners can make serviceable Passers with their Agility of 4. Obviously this isn’t a career for them but they do a good job until you can afford a Thrower later.

  2. Coach July 24, 2009 at 11:01 am #

    Ah yes I’ve had this debate with other coaches before who suggest not taking a thrower at all. I’m so used to playing with a thrower so I rarely need to use a gutter runner to do the job of picking it up, hence forgetting to mention it.

    Personally I would rather have another potential receiver for the opponents to deal with and the thrower can end up passing the ball better than a gutter runner can anyway. Of course you can still use a gutter runner to pick the ball up with even if you do have a thrower on the pitch, nothing should be set in stone.

  3. eriochrome July 24, 2009 at 11:48 am #

    Just starting a skaven team in an on going league right now.  Got 1M to start then 350K for additional upgrades with the limit of only single die skills.  I put the skills on everyone but the runners(easiest to level up) and the rat orge(want a double).

  4. Thanatos July 24, 2009 at 2:07 pm #

    Well yes, I would always get a Thrower eventually. I merely meant starting off.

    3+ with a Reroll(Sure Hands) is statistically safer than a straight 2+ for picking up the ball. Not by much but it can make all the difference at a crucial time of a game. And this is also true of passes.

  5. Wanderer July 24, 2009 at 3:36 pm #

    I would point out that much of the value of the one-turn-scorer is in the way the threat can force the opposing coach to modify his game plan.  Defensively coaches can less rely on a couple deep safeties to mark receivers, but have to spread out their whole team to make sure to cover enough of the pitch with TZs.
    On offense, strength teams will have a harder time going for the 2-1 victory.  During the half where they go last, stalling until turn 7 won’t be good enough, they have to stall all the way to turn 8, which gives you an extra turn to impede the ball carrier.  During the half where they go first, even if they stall until turn 8, you still have a good shot to score with your last turn.  Against other passing teams, if you find yourself in a high-scoring shootout, a one-turn score can net you an extra TD at the end of halves to put you over the top.

  6. Skaven Coach July 24, 2009 at 5:07 pm #

    I’m a new player to Blood Bowl and have just started up a league with some friends.  I coach Skaven, and am not really seeing the advantage of Wrestle over Block as your first skill pick for a Gutter Runner.  If a blocking roll is a “both down”, the former puts you both on the ground without armor rolls, while the latter puts your opponent on the ground only,  and you get an AV check.  In both cases, the ball comes loose if you’ve just hit the ball carrier…  Is the idea here that a GR on the ground can’t be blocked (only fouled) and therefore has a lower chance of being injured the next turn?
    In my first game I played dwarfs, and my only player to get a skill was a GR.  I’m leaning towards Block, but am curious as to why you might select Wrestle instead.

    • Coach July 24, 2009 at 5:29 pm #

      This is a simple one, most ball carriers are going to have the block skill as well, so if you have block there will be no effect, if you take wrestle instead you can knock him over for a team mate to collect the ball, or force them to pick the ball up again. This can seriously slow the progress of moving the ball down the field for the opposing team.

  7. Skaven Coach July 24, 2009 at 8:31 pm #

    Aha! Thinking outside the box here. I’d not really considered my Gutter Runners as players who would go after the ball carrier often (though they did try in their first game, to disasterous effect), but with wrestle, a “both down” would pull down another player *even if he has block* and, of course, dislodge the ball if that sucker had it.

    Nice.

  8. Wanderer July 24, 2009 at 9:02 pm #

    There’s more listed under the skill articles on block and wrestle, but it’s also a defensive strategy – if your player gets blocked, you can choose to have both players go prone, even if the opponent has block.  This prevents the player who blocked you from lending or preventing assists, especially if he has guard.   He also won’t be exerting a tackle zone during your turn, and since your player has the first opportunity to stand up, he  will be able to move freely that turn without being tied up by the player who just blocked you.

  9. Prakada July 25, 2009 at 12:45 am #

    Thanks Coach !
    My first i gave my first Gutter Runner Block and Dauntless, i will go for Strip Ball after this. Second will be Wrestle instad of Block, this will give me 2 blitzers and a decent ball carrier.  I just hope i will be able to level my linemens, they don’t get many xp atm 🙁

  10. one-trick-pwny July 25, 2009 at 11:22 pm #

    As long as you play one-turn scorers as aggressively as other runners I think can be real game-breakers. Don’t leave them in the dug-out on your opponents drive, keep them around as assists for blocks (they can move from one end of the pitch to the other to bring in a much needed assist) or lingering ball-pickers that steal the ball and run far far away with it (preferably to the end zone) once your blitzer runners have done their job.

    They are nice distractions too…your opponent will hunt them so putting them off to the side of where the action is can tie up opposing players that should maybe have been thinking more about protecting the ball carrier than chasing him.

    Sure, playing them aggressively means your precious one-turn scorer might die…but that’s what skaven is all about, re-shape and re-build (at least he won’t be hogging all the SPP and inflating your TV anymore).

  11. Cubuah July 28, 2009 at 2:51 pm #

    Very good read Coach!
    I was hoping you would put up a guide about how your two turn on offense, placing your recievers, ball carrier etc.
    Also how you would play defense vs 2 turners, how to cover recievers, who to blitz, starting lineup etc.
    Make some nice play graphs like you did on the MV6 one turner post.
    Excellent website you have.
    Cheers!

  12. Cubuah July 28, 2009 at 8:23 pm #

    I forgot, we are also missing a stormvermin guide. I need it badly!

  13. Dalryk September 10, 2009 at 2:23 am #

    Interested to know what you think of some of the other available mutations – I can see Foul Appearance being particularly annoying combined with Block and Side Step. Or Disturbing Presence combined with Pass Block. Or Prehensile Tail with Tackle/Shadowing…

  14. Wanderer September 10, 2009 at 5:19 am #

    Personally, I’m not a fan of those skills on gutter runners, because I feel like there are more useful options.  You really want to take advantage of the high movement and agility that gutter runners possess, and disturbing presence and prehensile tail are skills that could be taken, to equal effect, on linemen.  And LRB 5 Foul Appearance has been weakened to the point where I can’t really see taking it anymore.

  15. Serondal October 6, 2009 at 9:09 pm #

    Long legs, pass block, and catch could be very useful on a gutter runner allowing them to get into the right place and intercept a pass then turn around and run it in for a touch down on the next turn.

  16. BoBliness October 16, 2009 at 10:07 am #

    Wanderer, dont discount foul appearance.
    Its basically an automatic bonehead roll for their blitz action.
    I agree you wouldnt necessarily take it as a high pick for a gutter runner, but its not a bad mutation at all.  On defence against cages a couple of players with foul appearance can completely foul up (if you’ll excuse the pun) the other teams push, even one turn without getting to blitz can be very annoying.

    Throwers with foul appearance and dump-off are also incredibly annoying for the other team. You have to go to effort to set up the block so that you can have a chance at stopping the pass…only to have the foul appearance roll fail.

    In the Cyanide game you cant use a reroll on the foul appearance roll at the moment, so its slightly better online than on board.

  17. Wanderer October 16, 2009 at 10:52 am #

    It’s not whether it’s useful, it’s whether it’s more useful than anything else I could take.
    With a limit on 5 skills maximum on a player, personally, I just can’t see a reason to take it.  On a Skaven team I’m forgoing another doubles skill choice (dodge, guard, claw, horns, etc.) and on a Chaos team I’d want so many other normal skills first (block, guard, mighty blow, stand firm, tackle, frenzy, prehensile tail, etc.)

  18. BoBliness October 16, 2009 at 12:01 pm #

    agreed, its difficult to fit it in.
    I’ve seen it used a couple of ways that were interesting, but whether they were better than the other alternatives…..hard to say.

    A chaos front line with foul appearance on every player (mino and two chaos warriors) is annoying for other strength teams, but completely wasted against agi teams.

    Gutter runners with it only really turn up when someone has rolled several doubles on the same player.

    And I’m now confused, do I not have the latest version of the LRB?
    Isnt it 6 maximum skills for a player?

  19. Wanderer October 16, 2009 at 12:44 pm #

    You’re right, it’s 6 not 5.  I was going off the “LRB 5 changes” article on this site, which says 5 (that could be fixed when you get a chance, coach).   That was the nice thing about Foul Appearance in the old rules – it had value against both blocking and passing teams.

  20. BoBliness October 16, 2009 at 2:37 pm #

    worth noting that it still has some value against agi teams, in fact its one of the only things that can save your carrier from a blitzing wardancer with wrestle and tackle and a spare reroll….particularly since you cant reroll it at the moment in the cyanide version lol.

    It also makes getting your marker off a thrower a lot harder, gutter runners with shadowing, tackle, block, sidestep and foul appearance is darn hard to get off your thrower (though not THAT much harder than the same player without foul appearance)

    Meh, you’re right, its not as good as it probably needs to be to make it a genuinely good skill. All of its uses are pretty situational and specific, you wont see too many people taking it, but its a ‘nice to have’. The sort of skill you get as your fifth or sixth on a player thats pretty much got everything you needed him to have for his role.

  21. DirtyHarry December 26, 2009 at 10:56 am #

    I just started a Skaven team, and one of my gutter runners suffered -1 Strength. I have cash to buy a new one, but the gutter runner is lvl 2.  Should I discard him or should I wait to get a +ST

  22. Coach December 26, 2009 at 11:22 am #

    ST1 is pretty useless get rid of him, wouldn’t think twice about it. Any future questions about your teams can you ask in the forum please, sign up is just as easy as commenting here.

  23. Isha April 20, 2010 at 6:54 pm #

    Hey Coach, when will you finally give up and get a copy of the BB videogame? 🙂

    At the moment i’m running a quite nice skaven team with 4 different GR builds:
    1. wrestle, dauntless (striball next)
    2. +1 S, block (sidestep, shadowing)
    3. +1 MA, sprint (wrestle/block, surefeet)

    with the fourth i’m going quite a weird one:

    long legs, pass block, i intend to get leap and catch next – leaping on 2+, intercepting on 4+ with RR. I find leap and pass block to combine very nicely, rarely an opponent expect a leaping pass block. The combo also uses the long legs skills to its full. 

    What do you think?

  24. Crunky April 25, 2010 at 7:59 pm #

    I like your Gutters, although one with Guard might be a good idea.
    Maybe with the fourth Gutter you should get big hand instead of catch?  I find big hand and leap work really well together.

  25. FiLtheThriL June 20, 2012 at 6:42 am #

    I don’t know if this is still looked at and appologies if this is stupid, but does shadowing really work with diving tackle?

  26. jim August 11, 2012 at 10:21 am #

    In advising against the one turn build, I really think you are undervaluing how strong any player is when they can run 13 squares on defence.

    Any GR who gets +MV I’d follow up with sprint and sure feet for a 1 turn guy, but certainly wouldn’t hide him in the dug out on defence. If the other guy wants to spend all his blitzes chasing him down instead of concentrating on scoring touchdowns, well that works for me. Everything dies eventually.

    Very few opponents will realise just how thoroughly they have to protect the ball against an MA13 player, and even if they do – you’re forcing them to play more conservatively than they otherwise would.

    I’d throw block and probably dauntless into the build before side step and catch. Where I do agree is I wouldn’t bother until you roll +MA, if you need to rely on side step pushes you might as well get two of them and then any of your GRs can one-turn.

    • Coach August 13, 2012 at 10:38 am #

      We will just have to beg to differ, I would much rather face a Skaven team who has a one turner on the pitch when defending than a defensively built one. Those couple of extra squares of movement don’t really make much difference from the opposing offensive drive perspective (at least the way I play). With AG4, Dodge and MV9 as standard they can get anywhere they want to already.

  27. Tad30s February 24, 2013 at 6:17 am #

    Wouldn’t a “Marking/Turnover” Runner make sense? Seeing as there are four of them, and having four runners is just a total overkill.

    I’m building mine with Shadowing, P. Tail, Blodge, Side step/Stand Firm.
    Strip ball would work, if he’s to be the dedicated retriever, toss in Tackle in that case. Dauntless and Leap would be ones to look out for as well.. But the main idea is that with their insane movement, you will shadow everyone, forever. Eventually they will mess the dodge up, for suddenly it’s 5 dodge rolls instead of one.

    The low AV means he would get targeted from the moment he gets Shadowing till the moment he dies, but this is blood bowl. I’ve had blitzers die while tackling skinks with 5 assists.

    • Coach February 24, 2013 at 6:22 am #

      The Defensive Gutter Runners are Marking / Turnover Runners just with a different name! There are so many useful skills that they could take, Dauntless is another late pick I didn’t mention in the article though.

      • Tad30s February 24, 2013 at 7:42 am #

        Ah, i see. I was looking for the tail so hard, that i’ve overlooked the Diving Tackle build.
        Wouldn’t Diving Tackle and Tail stack? A hefty -3 to dodge would counter everything except for leap and throw teammate.

        • Coach February 24, 2013 at 7:45 am #

          They certainly do stack, though I can’t help but think I would rather spend a double roll on Guard or something else. Diving Tackle is usually enough to get the job done. With a Guard player marking someone you don’t want to move, they will always be an option to assist a team mate for a block or a blitz.

          Two Heads, Extra Arms, Big Hand, Nerves of Steel are personally all higher priority choices.

          • Tad30s February 24, 2013 at 8:26 am #

            True that, but should diving tackle be the reason for turnover, it would take too many traits – in my hardly-experienced opinion – to make the Defensive Runner also proficient at pushing the ball onward. Two Heads and Extra Arms are amazing, but BH or NoS would require him to have those extra heads.

            I’m more into having specialized team members (that are juicy for fauling and murder) that can be backed by those mixes-of-all things.

            Facing stunty teams everywhere i turn, i do feel that p.tail is worth more. Besides, it would allow you to “conserve” the diving tackle, for the “This is the last safe moment where i can remain laying down” shadowing, and rely more on the steady -1, that doesn’t cut down the movement.

            This is, of course, assuming that we don’t want Jump Up. In that case even the Big Hand… There are far too many variations.

          • Tad30s February 24, 2013 at 10:19 am #

            Now i see an error i’ve made.
            I was certain that they can pick mutations on single. P. Tail is, indeed, hardly worth a double on anything, except for roadblocks. (and even then, only the umptieth double). I still wouldn’t want big hand, but i shall look for different ways to enchant the defensive runner indeed.

            I will just take this opportunity to thank you for the amazing job you’ve done here. While bbtactics doesn’t exhaust all possible (viable) builds – to keep it from getting cluttered, i assume – it surely gets you on track much faster than anything i’ve seen. Kudos.

  28. Limdood February 24, 2013 at 4:45 pm #

    I favor building the 4 gutter runners to actually only have 3 on the pitch at a time usually.

    I like to build 1 of them into a 1-turn scorer-style, with sure feet, sprint, HOPEFULLY +1MA…maybe eventually VLL and Leap. The key with the 1-turner is that he’s only on the field when i recieve, in order to keep his SPP reasonable

    I build 2 wrestle, dauntless, strip ball, tackle, guard (at some point)

    The last is my specialist….If i get one with +1AG early, it becomes this guy: Block, +AG, Leap, Sure Hands, Pro (if he doesn’t get +AG, then he takes Big Hand and VLL on doubles)

    this way i have 2 ball hunters and a ball retriever to set up on defense, and when receiving, i have out the 1-turner and several linerats….the goal being a 1 or 2 turn TD whenever i recieve, and then a slow grinding defense when i kick, with surgical strikes by wrodging, dauntless, strip ball gutters and a specialized ball retriever.

  29. Ratemis March 28, 2013 at 2:00 pm #

    I love wrestle/dauntless as my first two skills on gutter runners as I try to build my skaven so that I can sack the ball on defence and score (and hopefully only play one offensive drive).

    But recently I have been debating which to take first? If you can only take one which do you take (more relevant for tournaments)?

    They both have similar chances of knocking the ball loose

    Chance of knocking over a S3 ball carrier with block:
    2 die block (dauntless): 5/6*5/9 + 1/6*1/3 = 51.8%
    1 die block (wrestle): 1/2 = 50%
    1 die block (dauntless): 5/6*1/3 + 1/6*1/9 = 29.6%
    -2 die block (wrestle): 1/4 = 25%

    Chance of knocking over a S3 ball carrier with blodge:
    2 die block (dauntless): 5/6/*11/36 + 1/6*1/6 = 28%
    1 die block (wrestle): 1/3 = 33.3%
    1 die block (dauntless): 5/6*1/6 + 1/6*1/36 = 14.3%
    -2 die block (wrestle): 1/9 = 11.1%

    One of the down sides to wrestle is it puts you on the ground, and ends that piece’s move. On the other hand it goes through block, and protects you on the both down result if your runner gets blitzed or blocked and doesn’t cause turnovers. Wrestle also has an effect against S2 ball carriers whereas dauntless does not. Wrestle obviously has the advantage if you can get two assists giving you the two dice block (dauntless does nothing in this situation).

    Dauntless has the advantage of keeping you on your feet when you blitz or block, good if your gutter runner has the ball, or if he is blitzing the ball carrier as he can attempt to pick up the ball after the blitz and makes it easier to achieve 1 and 2 dice blocks as you need less pieces to do so and as a result lets isolated gutter runners perform better.

    It also gives you more options. Performing two dodges through a tackle zone has a 83.3% chance of success (assuming that the last dodge is on a 2+, i.e not into a tackle zone), if those tackle zones belong to a player with the tackle skill that drops to 55.5% chance of success.

    Performing three dodges through tackle zone to get to the end zone has a 67.8% chance of success (assuming the last dodge is on a 2+, i.e not into a tackle zone), if those tackle zones belong to a player with the tackle skill that drops to 37% chance of succes.

    Both of the above situations occur quite frequently, often when your gutter runner gets pinned between a player and the sideline, or two players.

    A dauntless blitz against a S3 player has a 62.9% chance of pushing the player back (this takes into account the dauntless roll). With a re-roll this becomes a 86.41% chance.

    With 1 assist this becomes an 85% chance of pushing the player back (This takes into account the dauntless roll). With a re-roll this becomes a 96.49% chance.

    In these situations it can be safer to blitz the marker so you don’t have to perform any dodge rolls. Especially if the marker has tackle, prehensile tail or tentacles and does not have stand firm or side step.

    Taking the above into account I find dauntless has more utility than wrestle. As a result I have recently started going dauntless first, and choosing dauntless over wrestle in tournaments where you only get a few skills (often only one a piece). Obviously, ideally you want both! 😀

    Hope that’s useful.

  30. Kueller September 10, 2013 at 9:16 pm #

    I’m taking part in a BB Tournament and you an give players a Double skill and what your you suggest for a Gutter Runner? I have four skills to dish out but only one per player and probably going to give them all to my Gutter Runners.

  31. Freeks June 2, 2014 at 8:01 am #

    “Wrestle Rats: You need to build two of these guys and set them up one either side of the pitch when you are kicking off to the other team.”

    What i have learned that it’s not good to have two wrestle rats. You really don’t want ball to land on wrestle player. Blodge rat even with ST2 can hold ball, but with Wrestle it’s just too easy to pop the ball away. Skaven play a lot with just few players so all need to be handle ball at all times. One is enough for BC blitzes. Wrestle+TwoHeads is great blitz combination.

  32. Brocklee June 9, 2014 at 8:49 pm #

    At first I did go the route of a one-turn scorer(who is awesome with +1 MV, fend,sprint,sure feet) but I found that the one I did to be more defensive style player was great! I have a GR who has Block, Shadowing, Dauntless. Any opinion on what next? I’m of course thinking side step, but all depends, doubles I’d do horns or +1 ST, just cursious! thanks guys

    • Coach June 9, 2014 at 10:57 pm #

      I’d normally suggest making a forum thread and posting your whole team to better asses skill choices and weaknesses of the team. On this occasion though I think Side Step is clearly the choice I’d go for, I’d have taken it before Shadowing and Dauntless.

  33. Jodon November 25, 2015 at 6:25 am #

    What is the opinion about Horns vs Dauntless? I mainly asking about a wrestler GR but I also think both are generally good skills on a GR. If you can manage to get both +ST and Horns I think that makes for an incredible strong GR but it is not an very likely scenario. The problem with Horns for me is that you give up a double for it. I like the skill but I have a hard time seeing it wining over Dauntless when I have to give up double for it.

  34. Wildcat June 17, 2016 at 9:33 am #

    Looking over the thread I see a lot of really interesting and imaginative thoughts on GR builds… I have to say I’m surprised a 1 turn scorer isn’t universally accepted as amazing. You’re certainly putting a lot of eggs in one basket if you start the build without the +MV so I agree it’s a gamble. However if you are lucky enough to get that +MV on a GR early I think the 1 turn build is a must. The ability to score in 1 turn vs. 2 is a complete game changer. Lots of teams can reliably score in 2… But when you have the ability to do it in 1 it reshapes your opponents approach. Bashy teams can’t just sit on the ball forcing you to attack and grinding you down only to score on their turn 8 thus giving you no opportunity to score. Skaven are great opportunists but you can’t get caught up in trading blocks. Knowing I can reliably score in 1 turn, I often find myself letting my opponent set up a cage with zero resistance. If he/she is allocating 4-6 players plus the ball carrier for the cage then I look for players seperated from the cage to gang block with my storm vermin and rat ogre. You may pick up some extra SPP from this and create a numbers advantage on future drives. If your opponent panics and starts sending players to aid you can respond by attacking a less guarded cage. If your opponent tries to get into a fast pace offensive contest then this approach will likely favor the fleet of foot Skaven team as well. Like I said, lots of teams can reliably score in 2 turns. The ability to do it in 1 makes Skaven a unique problem to deal with.

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